Christian vs "Born Again"

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Elijah John
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Christian vs "Born Again"

Post #1

Post by Elijah John »

Who is "saved"?

Assuming for the sake of argument, it's only Christians, ...which Christians?

Only "Born Again" Christians?

How about mainline Christians who seldom if ever use that phrase "born again" and don't refer to themselves that way.

Most Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Episcopalians, and Eastern Orthodox. (who, by the way when their numbers are combined, comprise the overwhelming majority of Christians in the world) seldom if ever call themselves "born again Christians".

Assuming they actually practice their faith, are they "true" Christians even if they don't identify with the term "born again"?

Are people who don't call themselves "born again", Christians too?
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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ttruscott
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Re: Christian vs "Born Again"

Post #11

Post by ttruscott »

Elijah John wrote:But wouldn't that be ironic, that even the Savior doesn't fully explain how to be "saved".
Why is there a need to know how to be saved? It is not of works or anything one can do to be saved by being born again so there are no instructions. All the process is from GOD, by GOD by HIS grace through faith. ImCo
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Christian vs "Born Again"

Post #12

Post by Left Site »

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Here is very obviously what it means to be born again:

1 John 3:9  "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Regardless of conflicting opinions, whether a person would contrary to the nature of how they were originally created and be made to live forever as a spirit bodied being, or, they were granted everlasting life in material bodies in accord with the nature in which they were created, none will be granted everlasting life if they harbor a propensity toward sin.

The entire point of what God is doing is to completely defeat and destroy sin and the death which comes as the price of sin:

1 Corinthians 15:25-26 "For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."

Romans 6:23 " For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

The way that men were born of Adam after he sinned caused men to be born with the seed of the serpent implanted to their flesh producing sin and death. Any of us who would escape the end of that birth must be born again. We must be regenerated to have God's seed within us imparting holiness and life.

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ttruscott
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Re: Christian vs "Born Again"

Post #13

Post by ttruscott »

Elijah John wrote:Even in the third chapter of John, does Jesus even actually describe how to become "born again"? (question addressed to all)

Or did Jesus leave it up to Paul to "fill in the blanks" of his imperative to be "born again".

Judging from Evangelical salvation tracts, it would seem so.

But wouldn't that be ironic, that even the Savior doesn't fully explain how to be "saved".
No need to be fully complete because knowing the truth doesn't save anyone as the demons know the truth but tremble in terror at their end. Neither does Christianity accept that a man can save himself from sinfulness but rather that salvation is by grace, through faith, that none can boast. His lack of a full explanation has the purpose of forcing those who can be saved to look for that grace, to seek their God and not to try empty works.

The elect are under the promise of salvation which is inevitable.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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ttruscott
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Re: Christian vs "Born Again"

Post #14

Post by ttruscott »

myth-one.com wrote:Whosoever believes in Christ will be saved (future tense):

Quote:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
Should we then just ignore John 3:18, written in the same breath as v16? John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. Since those condemned already cannot be within those who believe but are not condemned, it is fair and reasonable to suggest that it could be read "Whoever believes in him ALREADY is not condemned"... only theology claims otherwise. Those who believe already but who are sown as sinners into this world Matt 13:38 are the ones within the whosoever whose faith/belief is restored, v16, during their redemption.

Such considerations take the promise of salvation out of the future and put it in the past, before we chose to sin to be fulfilled here in our earthlife time.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Christian vs "Born Again"

Post #15

Post by Left Site »

ttruscott wrote:
myth-one.com wrote:Whosoever believes in Christ will be saved (future tense):

Quote:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
Should we then just ignore John 3:18, written in the same breath as v16? John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. Since those condemned already cannot be within those who believe but are not condemned, it is fair and reasonable to suggest that it could be read "Whoever believes in him ALREADY is not condemned"... only theology claims otherwise. Those who believe already but who are sown as sinners into this world Matt 13:38 are the ones within the whosoever whose faith/belief is restored, v16, during their redemption.

Such considerations take the promise of salvation out of the future and put it in the past, before we chose to sin to be fulfilled here in our earthlife time.
Good post.

Your post made me realize that there is much more which could be compared to that promise at John 3:16 to check the validity of what we believe.

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Re: Christian vs "Born Again"

Post #16

Post by myth-one.com »

ttruscott wrote:
myth-one.com wrote:Whosoever believes in Christ will be saved (future tense):

Quote:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
Should we then just ignore John 3:18, written in the same breath as v16? John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. Since those condemned already cannot be within those who believe but are not condemned, it is fair and reasonable to suggest that it could be read "Whoever believes in him ALREADY is not condemned"... only theology claims otherwise. Those who believe already but who are sown as sinners into this world Matt 13:38 are the ones within the whosoever whose faith/belief is restored, v16, during their redemption.

Such considerations take the promise of salvation out of the future and put it in the past, before we chose to sin to be fulfilled here in our earthlife time.
All of us were condemned already, as we all (Christians and non-Christians) have sinned:
For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; (Romans 3:23)
So every believer came from those that were already condemned.

To become a believer, one had to have been a nonbeliever.

Any one condemned already due to being born as a human, can escape their condemnation, but it requires an act or "work" on their part.

That act or work is believing in Jesus as their Savior from their condemnation.

There is no problem with John 3:18 -- and no, it should not be ignored.

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