The Bible rumors

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Elijah John
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The Bible rumors

Post #1

Post by Elijah John »

Do you believe the Bible rumors about God? The negative ones, like Him condoning slavery, or Him drowning babies in the Flood?

Do you believe rumors against the people in your life that you love?

Do you believe the worst that's said about them? Or the best about them.

For debate,

How can anyone who claims to love God believe the worst things said about him, i.e. the negative Bible rumors?

(apologies to DI for the term "rumors" I borrowed for this post ;) )
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #2

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

I have no need to heed rumours about the bible since I havs several bibles in my home and I can simply read it myself and make up my own mind as to its contents.

I do take note of peoples objections and opinions about the bible howvwer as, since I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses I am also a Christan minister commissioned to teach bible truths to those that want lessons. The bible lessons I teach often involve correcting my students misunderstands about what the bible contains.

Restoring (or building) a solid respect for the bible is a fundamental step in building firm faith.



JW


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FAITH, GOD and ...THE BIBLE
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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marco
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #3

Post by marco »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
I have no need to heed rumours about the bible since I havs several bibles in my home and I can simply read it myself and make up my own mind as to its contents.
There are lots of problems with this. You might also have a copy of De Rerum Natura, by Lucretius, but not being able to read Latin, you would find it of no use.

You have bibles which involve translations and you may or may not have good translations.

Given they are reasonable renderings, you then have the problem of interpreting.

Take, for example: "I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

and

"I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise."

I wonder how you decide where the comma should go. I think - correct me if I am wrong - you make a decision based on what you already believe. So do others, and reach a different conclusions.

The rumours are about the bad press that Yahweh gets. But if one accepts that sometimes evil can be seen as good if it is perpetrated by God, then rumour becomes truth. There are no contradictions, no objections even when fathers are told to kill their sons. It is a very short walk from that view of the bible to a prison gate in early 19th century London where two gay men were hanged for being gay, a judgment derived from a rumour in the Bible that this was the will of God.
The bible lessons I teach often involve correcting my students misunderstands about what the bible contains.
And I wonder how many times the master himself is corrected. Is a misunderstanding not simply another way of seeing things? The pope uses his infallibility on a handful occasions over a millennium.

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #4

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 3 by marco]

None of that is in the least bit problematic for me, is there any reason why it should be? What is the link between the OPs "rumours about the bible", my answer and your comment?


JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

marco wrote: I think - correct me if I am wrong - you make a decision based on what you already believe.
Emphasis MINE


You are wrong. I make my decisions exactly -correct me if I am wrong - as you do. Namely, based on an analysis of the available information (see below).

1. Analysis of text (content, textual theme, thematic and linguistic precedents, linguistic indicators, historical, cultural context etc )

2. Review of the peer reviewed expert works of the original language and their conclusions as to gramatical indicators

3. Use of critical thinkng skills and rationale.
If after the above process I need to change my belief, opinion or conclusions on any given point, I do so.

JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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onewithhim
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #6

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

I do not believe that YHWH would ever do anything unfair or cruel. "Rumors" about him ordering the slaughter of innocent children in wars fought with pagans fall on my deaf ears, so to speak. If he notices every sparrow that falls, he certainly cares about the lives of children. The Flood was a different situation. Of course Noah couldn't take all the children aboard his ark. I believe that the children didn't know what hit them so they didn't suffer, and, most importantly, YHWH can bring them back to life in the new system of things after Armageddon.


I do not believe that he condones slavery. "Slavery" was a situation in ancient times where people had to work for someone to pay off a debt, in most cases, and the term could be compared to "servitude" or "employment" (employee-employer type of relationship). Some research will apprise us greatly of what "slavery" was in the time of ancient Israel.


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Tcg
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #7

Post by Tcg »

onewithhim wrote: Some research will apprise us greatly of what "slavery" was in the time of ancient Israel.
Some research into the contents of the Bible reveals the answer quite clearly:
  • Leviticus 25:44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Bible God sanctions the ownership of other humans as long as they aren't among his chosen few. As we see time and time again, he is a God who practices favoritism not justice.


Tcg
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #8

Post by Sojournerofthearth »

Elijah John wrote: Do you believe the Bible rumors about God? The negative ones, like Him condoning slavery, or Him drowning babies in the Flood?

Do you believe rumors against the people in your life that you love?

Do you believe the worst that's said about them? Or the best about them.

For debate,

How can anyone who claims to love God believe the worst things said about him, i.e. the negative Bible rumors?
I'm not sure I follow your premise. Assuming I understand, you have determined that only certain passages are acceptable?
How do you determine what is acceptable in the Bible and what is not? What is your criteria for that determination?

Soj

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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #9

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Ah yes, rumors.

Do we/are we to, accept them, pass them on, reject them, or try to validate or invalidate them?

How did Jesus deal with one?
John 21:

20 Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, “Lord, who is going to betray you?�)
21 When Peter saw him, he asked, “Lord, what about him?�

22 Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.�

23 Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?�

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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #10

Post by Sojournerofthearth »

[Replying to post 3 by marco]
Given they are reasonable renderings, you then have the problem of interpreting.
Take, for example: "I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
and
"I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise."
I wonder how you decide where the comma should go.
I think - correct me if I am wrong - you make a decision based on what you already believe. So do others, and reach a different conclusions.
I would tend to let the Bible make that determination. For instance, over and over it says that the dead know nothing and in the grave there is no thought. And it speaks of resurrections at the end of the age, both in the OT and the NT. Hence, putting the comma after you and not today, is in direct contradiction of scriptures. If everyone is already in heaven or hell, who are you going to resurrect?

I think, well, we'll just say that my opinion is, that sometimes, interpretation is baseless. I don't care how a person prefers to observe their religion, but if they're going to claim the Bible as their basis for their doctrines, then perhaps they should become more familiar with what the book actually says.[/quote]

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