intelligent christians?

[cristian_gavrilescu]

when you think that you are smart, poor people are pariah for you, you are a noble

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:34-46)

for me the right behavior is to think that you are a servant of the Lord,
what do you think?

[Divine Insight]

for me the right behavior is to think that you are a servant of the Lord,
what do you think?

I'm glad you asked. Thank you.

My first thought is why an omnipotent God would need me for anything?

Why would an omnipotent God need servants?

As I see it, these ancient fables were written in a time when kings and monarchs were in power. Apparently they viewed their Gods in much the same way that they viewed earthy kings. But why?

Obviously earthly kings need servants. The very existence of servants is what gives a king his power. A king who has no army has no power. A king who has no servant can't do anything beyond what he can do for himself.

But why should this apply to a supernatural omnipotent God?

I see these religions as dogma being used by human authoritarians who are trying to humble the masses into becoming servants. Something that a God or a Son of God, should never need.

Besides, what exactly would Jesus need me for?

If he has lost control over his very own creation, he certainly shouldn't need my help to regain control over it. In fact, any God who needs my help with anything would be pretty pathetic don't you think?

This doesn't mean that I then need to be selfish and only care about myself. Far from it. I can be a totally compassionate person who helps my fellow humans anytime I can. In fact, throughout my life I have been accused many times over of allowing others to take advantage of me. And in some cases that was actually true.

In some cases I was so helpful to other people that they did indeed begin to take advantage of me expecting me to fix all their problems. And even do work for them for free, simply because I had offered to do so once. They expected me to continue to do everything for them for free. As you pointed out in another thread, this becomes unrealistic and irresponsible of me to ignore my own welfare by allowing people to walk all over me.

In fact, didn't Jesus teach people that if someone asked you to do something for them to do more than they had asked? I've always done that. And not because Jesus said to do it. I just did it because I like to help people out. But it does become dangerous when they start taking advantage of such generosity on my part.

What you appear to be suggesting here is that we should do everything for Jesus. But then Jesus become the leech. What sense does that make?

I think this goes back to the mindset of kings and monarch. The idea being that everyone in the kingdom should be willing to give their lives for the king.

But is that really realistic? And again, why should an omnipotent God have any need for human servants?

It just doesn't make any sense.

Today, when leaders start acting like monarchical kings we call them "dictators" and they are frowned upon.

Yet this is precisely what Christianity is based on. Jesus is the dictator. He not only expects you to serve him, but he also threatens to condemn you to worse then death if you fail to serve him. That's the behavior we expect from ruthless dictators.

So I don't see where Christianity even makes any sense at all.

A ruthless dictator God who will hurt anyone who refuses to serve him?

In fact you posted it yourself:

6 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:34-46)

That's not benevolent behavior.

Nor is it a sign of omnipotence. To the contrary, it's a sign of extreme weakness and malevolence. Adolf Hitler threatened people with punishment. Any thug can do that.

Christianity doesn't even make any sense.

Why is Jesus so desperate for servants?

And why is he threatening to cast people into everlasting punishment?

What sense does that make?

Can you please explain this to me?

And again. Thanks for asking what I think.

[cristian_gavrilescu]

God is God, do you understand?

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 1 by cristian_gavrilescu]

And in the Beattitudes, Jesus turns the values of the world on it's head. There, he enumerates the values of the Kingdom of God, which are contrary to the world's.

Or to paraphrase Paul, "God chose the weak to shame the strong." Paul had his moments.

[cristian_gavrilescu]

i can be strong if i choose satan

[Divine Insight]

God is God, do you understand?

And what exactly is that supposed to mean?

The Christian God of the Bible is not like Zeus.

Zeus could do anything he wants because no one ever claimed that Zeus is righteous, trustworthy, or even loving.

But the God of the Bible must be all of these things. Therefore the God of the Bible is in no position to be claiming that he can do whatever he wants. He has to be righteous. He has to be trustworthy. And above all, he has to be loving. If he's not loving then Christian theology falls flat on its face in the mud.

If I can't trust your God to not be a tyrant dictator who doesn't care what I think, then you have an untrustworthy God who doesn't deserve my respect.

Even Hitler could demand obedience lest he'll cast you into a fiery furnace.

Any thug can do that.

Is the Biblical God a thug no better than Hitler?

Just saying, "God is God", doesn't work in Christian theology.

He has to be righteous, trustworthy, and loving. If he isn't these things then he's a thug no better than Hitler. And all the claims of righteous in Christianity fall apart like a fragile house of cards.

You can't defend Christian theology by claiming that God is allowed to be a thug just because he's God. That's incompatible with him being righteous, trustworthy, and loving.

[marco]

God is God, do you understand?

Moderator Comment



Avoid one liners please. And avoid preaching, too. Some do understand and some choose not to believe what you say. That is why we have civil debate. Welcome to our forum.

Please review the Rules.


______________

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[cristian_gavrilescu]

buddy, i don't have questions, i have certainties
i play the fool

[Icey]

when you think that you are smart, poor people are pariah for you, you are a noble

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:34-46)

for me the right behavior is to think that you are a servant of the Lord,
what do you think?

Why would I be a servant?
Why would I want that? Why would anyone (unless they offered to be a servant)?
Why does God need servants?
What behavior denotes a servant?
Who says that behavior is right or not?
Seems there are many questions that need answered first.

[Quantrill]

I'm glad you asked. Thank you.

My first thought is why an omnipotent God would need me for anything?

Why would an omnipotent God need servants?

As I see it, these ancient fables were written in a time when kings and monarchs were in power. Apparently they viewed their Gods in much the same way that they viewed earthy kings. But why?

Obviously earthly kings need servants. The very existence of servants is what gives a king his power. A king who has no army has no power. A king who has no servant can't do anything beyond what he can do for himself.

But why should this apply to a supernatural omnipotent God?

I see these religions as dogma being used by human authoritarians who are trying to humble the masses into becoming servants. Something that a God or a Son of God, should never need.

Besides, what exactly would Jesus need me for?

If he has lost control over his very own creation, he certainly shouldn't need my help to regain control over it. In fact, any God who needs my help with anything would be pretty pathetic don't you think?

This doesn't mean that I then need to be selfish and only care about myself. Far from it. I can be a totally compassionate person who helps my fellow humans anytime I can. In fact, throughout my life I have been accused many times over of allowing others to take advantage of me. And in some cases that was actually true.

In some cases I was so helpful to other people that they did indeed begin to take advantage of me expecting me to fix all their problems. And even do work for them for free, simply because I had offered to do so once. They expected me to continue to do everything for them for free. As you pointed out in another thread, this becomes unrealistic and irresponsible of me to ignore my own welfare by allowing people to walk all over me.

In fact, didn't Jesus teach people that if someone asked you to do something for them to do more than they had asked? I've always done that. And not because Jesus said to do it. I just did it because I like to help people out. But it does become dangerous when they start taking advantage of such generosity on my part.

What you appear to be suggesting here is that we should do everything for Jesus. But then Jesus become the leech. What sense does that make?

I think this goes back to the mindset of kings and monarch. The idea being that everyone in the kingdom should be willing to give their lives for the king.

But is that really realistic? And again, why should an omnipotent God have any need for human servants?

It just doesn't make any sense.

Today, when leaders start acting like monarchical kings we call them "dictators" and they are frowned upon.

Yet this is precisely what Christianity is based on. Jesus is the dictator. He not only expects you to serve him, but he also threatens to condemn you to worse then death if you fail to serve him. That's the behavior we expect from ruthless dictators.

So I don't see where Christianity even makes any sense at all.

A ruthless dictator God who will hurt anyone who refuses to serve him?

In fact you posted it yourself:

6 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:34-46)

That's not benevolent behavior.

Nor is it a sign of omnipotence. To the contrary, it's a sign of extreme weakness and malevolence. Adolf Hitler threatened people with punishment. Any thug can do that.

Christianity doesn't even make any sense.

Why is Jesus so desperate for servants?

And why is he threatening to cast people into everlasting punishment?

What sense does that make?

Can you please explain this to me?

And again. Thanks for asking what I think.

As a Christian, I would say this. God does not need man for anything. He doesn't need servants. Jesus Christ doesn't need servants. Jesus Christ doesn't need us for anything. And God's creation is not out of His control.

You are correct in that God and Christ are dictatorial. And this will be more perfectly played out when the Millennium reign of Christ begins. That will be a 1000 year literal physical rule by Jesus Christ on earth. He will be sole Dictator. Of course, to the believer, this will be great. But to others, a reign of righteousness will be hell. This brings other questions with it.

Most of your questions revolve around 'why'. If God is God, omipotent, and omniscient, why create this way? And, as a Christian, I have considered, why did God make salvation so difficult? Why make it so that He, God the Son, had to die such a death? In fact, to go farther back, why did God create satan? Why didn't He destroy satan when he rebelled? Why let satan in the Garden of Eden in the first place? Why couldn't we all live as Adam and Eve in paradise and bliss forever?

So many questions of 'why'. But, just like science, it continues to ask questions of the origin of the universe or creation. Yet it does not deny it's existence. And so I the Christian have many questions of God, yet do not deny His existence because I don't have all the answers.

As a believer, I say God is God. He cannot cease to be God. Whatever He does, it is right and good because He cannot cease to be God. God is to be worshiped. Why? Because He is God. To worship Him is right and good. To not worship Him is wrong and evil.

So, in His creation, God has purpose. It is right and good. And it will be brought about. Would I have done it this way? No. But I'm not God. With God, it will work as it will meet His goal. And with God, that is the only criteria to be met.

Quantrill