Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?

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Wootah
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Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

What was special about Jesus's sacrifice and in contrast why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?

Also was Jesus perfect?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?

Post #61

Post by Revelations won »

Dear JW,

Tam said:

"[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #49]

When he was a mighty spirit in heaven he was called Michael or The Word

While he was a human on earth he was called Jesus

When he returned to heaven as a mighty spirit was once again called Michael /The Word"

I, Tam and others have challenged your claim the Jesus is Michael, since:

He never referred to Himself as Michael, not even after He returned to heaven. Just the opposite, in fact. He referred to Himself by His actual name (Jaheshua - though this is rendered [Jesus] in most translations).


Now I have another point to raise regarding your claim:

Why in the world would Michael cast the angels that chose evil down to this earth instead of sending them to some other planet?

He certainly had the power to do so for he was given ALL power in Heaven and earth.

It is also very clear that Satan will be bound during the Millennium for about 1000 years and will then agin be released for a short season.

Was this a part of God's plan?

If so why would He wait for about 6000 years before binding Satan, then bind Him for 1000 years and then wait for that period to end and then bind him forever?

Was it necessary. as a part of God's plan for each of us to be tested to allow the exercise of our agency to choose good or evil?

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?

Post #62

Post by JehovahsWitness »

REVELATION 12:8, 9 NIV

But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him
Revelations won wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:33 am Why in the world would Michael cast the angels that chose evil down to this earth instead of sending them to some other planet?

Why are you asking me? Why don't you just ask GOD, He is the one that had that written in his Word the holy bible not me.

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THE MILLENNIUM, SATAN THE DEVIL and ... THE BOOK OF REVELATION
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Re: Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?

Post #63

Post by Overcomer »

JW wrote:
Like Adam, Jesus not having a human father meant he started his human life as a perfect creation of God, sin free. All natural descendants of Adam inherit their sinful state (meaning an innate leaning towards committing sinful acts) from our imperfect parents.
But he had a human mother. Are you saying that women aren't born in a sinful state? Or are you saying that women are sinners as well, but they don't transmit that sinfulness to their children, that only men do?

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Re: Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?

Post #64

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Overcomer wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:41 pm JW wrote:
Like Adam, Jesus not having a human father meant he started his human life as a perfect creation of God, sin free. All natural descendants of Adam inherit their sinful state (meaning an innate leaning towards committing sinful acts) from our imperfect parents.
But he had a human mother. Are you saying that women aren't born in a sinful state? Or are you saying that women are sinners as well, but they don't transmit that sinfulness to their children, that only men do?


I don't think anyone can say for sure the degree of genetic imput Mary provided. Evidently she carried the child from conception and so can legitimately be called his mother. God may well have taken, repaired and used elements from Mary's own DNA to ensure the child physically resembled her. Or he could have simply created their exact replica to the same end. Nobody can say for sure but one thing do know is that the angel Gabriel explained to her ....

LUKE 1:35 NWT

“Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy, God’s Son

Thus Jehovah's spirit miraculously protected the developing child in the womb, both from harm and from any negative influence his imperfect mother may have had on it. After all if God can take elements from the ground (carbon, iron, zinc) and fashion a perfect human, its reasonable he can do the same with any elements from a woman.




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Re: Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?

Post #65

Post by Overcomer »

JW wrote:
I don't think anyone can say for sure the degree of genetic imput Mary provided. Evidently she carried the child from conception and so can legitimately be called his mother. God may well have taken, repaired and used elements from Mary's own DNA to ensure the child physically resembled her. Or he could have simply created their exact replica to the same end. Nobody can say for sure but one thing do know is that the angel Gabriel explained to her ....
I think you're doing a lot of speculating since there's nothing in the Bible that says that.

If Jesus were not a flesh and blood human, he could not have represented us on the cross. He could not have died. He could not have shed blood. Yet he did, on the cross. So he had to be human and he got his humanity from his mother, Mary.


JW wrote:
Thus Jehovah's spirit miraculously protected the developing child in the womb, both from harm and from any negative influence his imperfect mother may have had on it. After all if God can take elements from the ground (carbon, iron, zinc) and fashion a perfect human, its reasonable he can do the same with any elements from a woman.
Again, this is speculation. There is nothing in the Bible that says Jesus was created and formed in that way.

And you still haven't given me a Biblical reason for Jesus being sinless. You have said that he wasn't sinless just because he was, as your church teaches, the Archangel Michael in another form. And that's true. Being an angel wouldn't guarantee that Jesus was sin-free since all created beings, angel or human, have the capacity for sin.

So how is it that Jesus managed NOT to sin being a flesh and blood human being, born of a woman?

There is only one sinless being in existence. That's God.

The Bible tells us that Jesus is sinless. As Mary's child, he couldn't be sinless. If he were an angel, that wouldn't make him sinless. Simply not having Joseph for a biological parent wouldn't make him sinless. There's nothing in the Bible that says the Holy Spirit kept him from sinning -- at least, not that I'm aware of.

I'm sorry, but I still don't understand why you think he was sinless based on what the Bible tells us about him.

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Re: Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?

Post #66

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Overcomer wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:25 pm JW wrote:
I don't think anyone can say for sure the degree of genetic imput Mary provided. ....
I think you're doing a lot of speculating ...
Well one thing de know for sursis all things are possible with God and God made it possible.



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Re: Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?

Post #67

Post by nobspeople »

Wootah wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:28 am What was special about Jesus's sacrifice and in contrast why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?

Also was Jesus perfect?
Most that believe Jesus to be God would likely say YES to the perfect question I suspect (though other writings of Jesus, that the church didn't find flattering, certainly points to Jesus being, at the very least, a brat and annoying).
About the sacrifices:
To me, ANY god (god, or God or Zeus or Satan or whomever) that demands a physical sacrifice of a living being's life (human or animal) is by all means barbaric and, for me at least, unworthy of my attention. The fact that so many today may see the sacrifice of a living being as OK is very, very disturbing, but not altogether surprising.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?

Post #68

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

None of the previous sacrifices were not sufficient because they were not human. To balance out Adam's faithlessness, there had to be another human ("the last Adam"...I Corinth. 15:45) that would be faithful, and that would give up his perfect life for mankind.

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Re: Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?

Post #69

Post by Wootah »

nobspeople wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:04 pm
Wootah wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:28 am What was special about Jesus's sacrifice and in contrast why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?

Also was Jesus perfect?
Most that believe Jesus to be God would likely say YES to the perfect question I suspect (though other writings of Jesus, that the church didn't find flattering, certainly points to Jesus being, at the very least, a brat and annoying).
About the sacrifices:
To me, ANY god (god, or God or Zeus or Satan or whomever) that demands a physical sacrifice of a living being's life (human or animal) is by all means barbaric and, for me at least, unworthy of my attention. The fact that so many today may see the sacrifice of a living being as OK is very, very disturbing, but not altogether surprising.
Sacrifice appears to me to be a universal pattern. I am not certain of this but it is probably impossible to do good without sacrifice being present in the offering of the good you want to do. As it may be a universal pattern it may be worthy of some of your attention going forward?

However, I agree that it is pointless and barbaric if Jesus is human-only. The Bible says none are good, all have gone astray.

Psalm 14

1 The fool[a] says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.

2 The Lord looks down from heaven
on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.
3 All have turned away, all have become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.

4 Do all these evildoers know nothing?

They devour my people as though eating bread;
they never call on the Lord.
5 But there they are, overwhelmed with dread,
for God is present in the company of the righteous.
6 You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor,
but the Lord is their refuge.

7 Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion!
When the Lord restores his people,
let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?

Post #70

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to Wootah in post #70]
I am not certain of this but it is probably impossible to do good without sacrifice being present in the offering of the good you want to do. As it may be a universal pattern it may be worthy of some of your attention going forward?
I'm not sure I understand totally what you're saying here. Can you elaborate?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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