You MUST be born again

[Checkpoint]

You MUST be born again".

That is a very emphatic statement, made to Nicodemus, a Jewish teacher.

Here now is the whole passage, from John 3:

1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit b gives birth to spirit.

7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

An interesting exchange, and an interesting subject.

How do you understand what Jesus taught in these verses?

What do you say being born again, or being born of the Spirit, actually is?

Is this for every follower of Jesus, or only for some believers?

Does it take place in this life, or in the one to come, or both?

Why is it so important?

Could it be similar to, or the result of, repentance and/or saving faith?

How would you explain verse 8?

[myth-one.com]

If there will be "no more death" after its being cast into the lake of fire, will there be no more Satan after he is cast into the same place?

No, because Satan (the devil) is an immortal spiritual bodied being which cannot perrish.

That is what is called "circular reasoning".

It's scriptural, not circular.

The age of man will be over when the last human is either born again as a spirit, or is cast into the lake of fire and dies.

At that time, death is defeated as mankind is over.

There is no one who can suffer any death at that time.

It seems that you believe spiritual bodies can die? Is that correct?

Who is alive that can suffer any death at that time?

It certainly is not the devil.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

[myth-one.com]

Peace to you both,

Spirit beings are immortal in the sense that they do not die of natural causes. But they can be destroyed (by fire).

God is a Spirit: . . . John 4:24

Should God stay away from fire?
==================================================

Spirit beings do not die from any natural causes!

They are all immortal.

Physical beings can be killed by fire.

If spirits can also be killed by fire, as you claim, then there is no certainty that John 3:16 is true:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Is it all a fraud?

[William]

Essentially all are eternal beings, such is the breath of The Creator.

A such, we cannot cease to exist, so something else has to happen in relation to any Justice which those who believe Justice must be served, require.

It is sorted on that count.

[myth-one.com]

Essentially all are eternal beings, such is the breath of The Creator.

Here is where that idea originated:

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (Genesis 3:4)

As such, we cannot cease to exist, so something else has to happen in relation to any Justice which those who believe Justice must be served, require.

It is sorted on that count.

Since you suggested the idea that all are created immortal, where do you go from there?

========================================

Here's an idea.

Since we live forever, we must live somewhere.

Let's assign all Christians to spend eternity in heavenly bliss with God for eternity, while condemning all others to everlasting torment in the fires of hell.

Ahhh, the perfect system!

[William]

Essentially all are eternal beings, such is the breath of The Creator.

Here is where that idea originated:

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (Genesis 3:4)

As such, we cannot cease to exist, so something else has to happen in relation to any Justice which those who believe Justice must be served, require.

It is sorted on that count.

Since you suggested the idea that all are created immortal, where do you go from there?

========================================

Here's an idea.

Since we live forever, we must live somewhere.

Let's assign all Christians to spend eternity in heavenly bliss with God for eternity, while condemning all others to everlasting torment in the fires of hell.

Ahhh, the perfect system!

It is far more complex than that.

Such reasoning only applies to those who require Justice.

When individuals move from this reality to the next phase, they effectively create for themselves whatever reality they do, based upon their beliefs, their true nature [personality] and their overall attitude. Immediately.

No other being assigns to them what their next experience is to be. We each assign ourselves that creation, to be experienced by our individual self.



This state of reality experience is not one which will last an eternity.

[JehovahsWitness]

The age of man will be over when the last human is either born again as a spirit, or is cast into the lake of fire and dies.

What do you mean "dies"? Do you mean DIES as in "ceases to exist" (terminates their life) or do you mean dies as in continues to exist (in some other form)?



JW

[myth-one.com]

The age of man will be over when the last human is either born again as a spirit, or is cast into the lake of fire and dies.

What do you mean "dies"? Do you mean DIES as in "ceases to exist" (terminates their life) or do you mean dies as in continues to exist (in some other form)?

JW

Dying the second death is the end of life for that human. It is the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of that human. It will be a return to dust.

They cease to exist ever again, and they will be forgotten.

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

Gone, gone. Bye, bye!

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #470]

That which is born of physical beings is physical bodied.

That which is born of the Spirit is spiritual bodied.

Seeing you like to keep to the words Jesus used in speaking to Nicodemus, let's not alter any of them.

I repeat, therefore, John 3 verse 6:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

You say "is flesh" means, or is only applicable to, "anyone who "is physical bodied".

You also say "is spirit" means, or is only applicable to, anyone who "is spiritual bodied".

I say otherwise. Here is why.

Nicodemus also took Jesus literally, so he made it only applicable in a "bodied" sense.

Jesus was not responding, in verse 6, in this literal or personal way, however.

He instead states a general principle, applicable to both flesh and spirit.

He does not therefore start with "the one who", or "those who", but rather with "that which is".

What, then, is that general principle?

The principle of "according to their kinds", Genesis 1. Jesus used the same principle when he taught, "by their fruits you will know them", Matthew 7.

This is an example of how Jesus used the words "flesh" and "spirit"; John 6:63:

The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

"The flesh" has works, and the Spirit has, and produces "fruits".

Being born again, of the Spirit, of God, is evident by how we live at this time in this body.

Paul writes of these in Galatians 5:19-24.









,






===========================================

Thus, for man to gain everlasting life, he must be born of the Spirit.

[William]

That which is born of spirit is not born in the same way as that which is born of flesh, but the process is similar.

The birthing simply refers to a beginning event, which occurs when the individual makes the initial request...it is usually a slow process as the individual is generally unaware of the hoards of data of experience he/she has accumulated over the span of his/her lifetime which altogether created the individual personality they became prior to being born again, through how that information affected their self identity. It is that information which the individual must purge from his/her psyche.

Without a complete change in ones self identity, no one can understand the true scope and purpose of the spiritual realm to which Jesus refers to as his Fathers Kingdom and will simply settle for whatever their religious leaders tell them about such things.
[Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?] Jesus asked Nicodemus.

Personal effort and commitment is required. If one has not experienced these insights - peeks into the spiritual realm - it is because they have yet to begin their journey into being born again. Of The Spirit.

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Whether Nicodemus took Jesus' word on board and learned from that and became Born Again of The Spirit, we do not know...although some traditions think that he ended up following Jesus...but them's the rules if one wishes to experience the Spiritual Realm of the Fathers Kingdom.

[myth-one.com]

That which is born of spirit is not born in the same way as that which is born of flesh, but the process is similar.

The birthing simply refers to a beginning event, which occurs when the individual makes the initial request...

Jesus claims only one thing needs to be done.

You're saying more than one thing is required.

Personal effort and commitment is required. If one has not experienced these insights - peeks into the spiritual realm - it is because they have yet to begin their journey into being born again. Of The Spirit.

Isn't this is a "cart before the Horse" dilemma?

Jesus told Nicodemus that "no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

You're claiming that one must peek (see) into the spiritual realm "before" being born again of the Spirit and able to see into the spiritual realm.

Maybe it's a "Catch-22."