Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

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Eloi
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Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

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Post by Eloi »

The Jews to whom they were first preached the good news of the Kingdom already knew who God is. Jesus and his apostles were Jews, so they knew it too. The OT is full of references to the person of God and his personal name, so Jews were considered His witnesses (Is. 43:10-12). Jesus even told the Jews that the One they believed to be their God was his own Father.

John 8:54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.

Although Jesus mentioned his Father to them many times, he had to make them understand that he was the Messiah that Jehovah had promised before, but they did not believe him. In time it began to be preached to non-Jews who believed in many gods, and who had no idea of the importance of God's Messiah.

What God did Judeo-Christians speak to non-Jews when Christian congregations began to form in the first century? Did they talk about Jehovah, or did they forget about him? Can a worshiper of Jehovah forget his God?

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Re: Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

Post #51

Post by 2timothy316 »

Eloi wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:12 pm In this paragraph of an article on the subject that I studied some time ago, the matter is summarized this way:

Satan blurs people’s view of Jehovah. After the death of Jesus’ apostles, some who claimed to be Christians began to spread false teachings. (Acts 20:29, 30) These apostates started to blur the identity of the only true God. For example, they stopped using the divine name in their copies of the Bible and preferred such expressions as “Lord.” By removing God’s personal name and replacing it with “Lord,” they made it difficult for a Bible reader to see how Jehovah is different from the other “lords” mentioned in the Scriptures. (1 Cor. 8:5) They used the same term, “Lord,” for Jehovah and for Jesus, making it difficult to understand that Jehovah and his Son are different individuals with distinct positions. (John 17:3) This confusion contributed to the development of the doctrine of the Trinity—a doctrine not taught in God’s Word. As a result, many see God as mysterious and believe that we cannot know him. What a lie!—Acts 17:27.

Satan wants people not to know who Jehovah is, because he knows that salvation depends on it:

John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
This has been on going for quite some time. "They intend to make my people forget my name by the dreams they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot my name because of Baʹal." Jer 23:27. Even in the Garden of Eden Satan didn't use God's name. "“Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?...For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.”” Gen 3:1, 5. When a name is used it personalizes the person. Satan would like nothing more than for us think of some nameless deity when someone says God. He certainly doesn't want the name Jehovah to come to mind. Interestingly enough, the word Ba'al simply means 'master'. Same ol' tricks just now presented in a new way, instead of 'master' it's 'lord'.

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Re: Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

Post #52

Post by Eloi »

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #52]
Exactly. Christendom out there, defender of apostate ideas that come from centuries ago, have been giving the word "GOD" a very confusing meaning that depersonalizes the God of gods. They try to make believe that "god" is an essence or substance that is shared by three so-called persons. They make believe that GOD is a kind of family name, corporation with three heads, based on a shared substance. In this way they leave Jehovah without identity, and the people who seek Him are left lost in a desert of mirages that lead them nowhere real.

The Bible was not written for speculators of strange philosophies, nor theologians who invent ideas to make others believe that the spirit of God has told them things that contradict the very written Word of God, as if they were the spokesmen of God today. Anyone who seeks God will find him by studying his written word and can be helped by those who have a deep understanding of what it says, without deviating from it ... Thus they will draw near to Jehovah, the God of gods, and obtain from him salvation through his Son Jesus. That cannot be offered by the theologians of Christendom, who only mislead people. Jehovah does not seek "wise" men after the manner of the world to worship him; He looks for meek and humble people who recognize the basic truth of the Bible and strive to continue learning and applying what they learn in their lives while serving God.

1 Cor. 1:26 For YOU behold his calling of YOU, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth; 27 but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are, 29 in order that no flesh might boast in the sight of God. 30 But it is due to him that YOU are in union with Christ Jesus, who has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom; 31 that it may be just as it is written: “He that boasts, let him boast in Jehovah.”

Matt. 11:25 At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. 26 Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved."

The theologians of Christendom have made the teaching of the truth a business for financial gain and a supposed reputation in the eyes of believers ... but they are not very interested in getting out of that business even if they realize it is supported on religious lies because of the losses they would have to suffer humanly speaking if they abandon that human religious system.

John 5:39 “YOU are searching the Scriptures, because YOU think that by means of them YOU will have everlasting life; and these are the very ones that bear witness about me. 40 And yet YOU do not want to come to me that YOU may have life. 41 I do not accept glory from men, 42 but I well know that YOU do not have the love of God in YOU. 43 I have come in the name of my Father, but YOU do not receive me; if someone else arrived in his own name, YOU would receive that one. 44 How can YOU believe, when YOU are accepting glory from one another and YOU are not seeking the glory that is from the only God?

People who are dazzled by that "glory" will receive the same ending as they.

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Re: Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

Post #53

Post by PinSeeker »

Eloi wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:20 pm They try to make believe that "god" is an essence or substance that is shared by three so-called persons.
God is manifest in three distinct Persons. God the Father is spirit (John 4:24), God the Son (Jesus) is God incarnate, and God the Holy Spirit is the One with Whom we, as Christians, are anointed. Together, they are of one essence -- which is to say the Father, Son, and Spirit are one in intrinsic nature, in indispensable quality that determines God's character... the core nature, or qualities, of God. The orthodox doctrine of the Trinity affirms that God is one in essence and three in person. Contrary to the assertions of Muslims and others, this is not a contradiction. If God were to be one and not one (that is, three) at the same time and in the same relationship, then we would have a logical contradiction. For example, if we were to say God is one in essence and not one in essence, then we would be confessing nonsense. But we believe that God is one and God is three at the same time, but the way in which He is one (in essence) is different than the way in which He is three (in person).
Eloi wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:20 pm They make believe that GOD is a kind of family name, corporation with three heads...
LOL!!!! Well, there may be some (nutty) folks out there who do that. I mean, there are some nutty people in this crazy world of ours... LOL!!! Actually, in a way, I kind of like the "corporation" idea, in the same sense that Christians, as one body, corporately worship the living God and are thus a "corporation" of sorts. In that sense, the triune Jehovah is a "corporation" of sorts (a corporate body), and likewise, we, as Christians are a "corporation" (a corporate body) numerous as the stars of the heavens and the grains of sand on the seashore... but one. See? It's not so hard to take in. Understanding it fully is not as easy; a lot of things are that way. But understanding the concept is not difficult.
Eloi wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:20 pm In this way they leave Jehovah without identity...
My goodness. Even if "God" were some kind of family name, or "corporation," this doesn't even follow. What you say here is just silly demagoguery, really. My goodness.
Eloi wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:20 pm The Bible was not written for speculators of strange philosophies, nor theologians who invent ideas to make others believe that the spirit of God has told them things that contradict the very written Word of God, as if they were the spokesmen of God today.
I agree completely. But still, there are those who do, which is a terrible thing; we just disagree on who those folks are, obviously. At any rate, one great day, that will no longer be the case.
Eloi wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:20 pm Anyone who seeks God will find Him...
True. Sure. So yes, there is hope for JWs and others yet... :)
Eloi wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:20 pm The theologians of Christendom have made the teaching of the truth a business for financial gain and a supposed reputation in the eyes of believers ... but they are not very interested in getting out of that business even if they realize it is supported on religious lies because of the losses they would have to suffer humanly speaking if they abandon that human religious system.
Ah, yes, "Big Theology." LOL!!!
Eloi wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:20 pm People who are dazzled by that "glory" will receive the same ending as they.
I seek only the glory of God. This is man's chief end, to glorify God and enjoy Him forever.

Hoo-boy. Grace and peace to all.

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Re: Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

Post #54

Post by Eloi »

We can know that Jehovah's name was mentioned and written by inspired Christians because their service to Jehovah was as important to them as it was to Jehovah's faithful servants until at least 4 centuries before Christ was born, when the last pre-Christian inspired book was written. The Name of Jehovah was written, mentioned and respected until that very time. Have you ever wondered why Jehovah did not inspire any other book accepted as part of the Hebrew canon after that time?

All the inspired writers of the Christian Scriptures were Jews, not like any Jew of their time who followed the Pharisaic traditions, but like the prophets before Christ, who used God's name profusely and showed him great respect by serving him loyally.

We have one example in Paul when he writes to the Christians in Rome, and he tells them the following:

Rom. 4:1 That being so, what will we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For instance, if Abraham was declared righteous as a result of works, he would have reason to boast, but not with God. 3 For what does the scripture say? “Abraham put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the man who works, his pay is not counted as an undeserved kindness but as something owed to him. 5 On the other hand, to the man who does not work but puts faith in the One who declares the ungodly one righteous, his faith is counted as righteousness. 6 Just as David also speaks of the happiness of the man to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: 7 “Happy are those whose lawless deeds have been pardoned and whose sins have been covered; 8 happy is the man whose sin Jehovah will by no means take into account.”

Paul, who was a faithful Jewish worshiper of Jehovah, was not afraid to mention God's name in the Scriptures that he was quoting:

Gen. 15:6 And he put faith in Jehovah, and He counted it to him as righteousness.

Psal. 32:1 Happy is the one whose transgression is pardoned, whose sin is covered. 2 Happy is the man whom Jehovah does not charge with guilt, In whose spirit there is no deceit.

The leaders and theologians of Christendom out there do not teach their followers that in the New Testament there are many DIRECT QUOTES from the Old Testament that contain the name of Jehovah. They are not taught that in the first century Jehovah's name was in the Greek LXX with Hebrew characters, and that Greek-speaking Christians who read that version saw, read, and used the Name exactly as all of Jehovah's faithful servants did before Christ.

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Re: Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

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Post by PinSeeker »

Eloi wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:52 pm The leaders and theologians of Christendom out there do not teach their followers that in the New Testament there are many DIRECT QUOTES from the Old Testament that contain the name of Jehovah.
Ohhhhh, sure they do. Just not the way you think they ought to, that's all (which is a good thing).

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

Post #56

Post by Eloi »

Scholars of the Christian Canon have discovered that the Gospel of Matthew was first written in Hebrew, and later (most likely by Matthew himself) it was translated into Greek. In the Biblical Encyclopedia that we Jehovah's Witnesses use, we are informed about this:

Originally Written in Hebrew.
External evidence to the effect that Matthew originally wrote this Gospel in Hebrew reaches as far back as Papias of Hierapolis, of the second century C.E. Eusebius quoted Papias as stating: “Matthew collected the oracles in the Hebrew language.” (The Ecclesiastical History, III, XXXIX, 16) Early in the third century, Origen made reference to Matthew’s account and, in discussing the four Gospels, is quoted by Eusebius as saying that the “first was written . . . according to Matthew, who was once a tax-collector but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, . . . in the Hebrew language.” (The Ecclesiastical History, VI, XXV, 3-6) The scholar Jerome (of the fourth and fifth centuries C.E.) wrote in his work De viris inlustribus (Concerning Illustrious Men), chapter III, that Matthew “composed a Gospel of Christ in Judaea in the Hebrew language and characters for the benefit of those of the circumcision who had believed. . . . Moreover, the Hebrew itself is preserved to this day in the library at Caesarea, which the martyr Pamphilus so diligently collected.”—Translation from the Latin text edited by E. C. Richardson and published in the series “Texte und Untersuchungen zur Geschichte der altchristlichen Literatur,” Leipzig, 1896, Vol. 14, pp. 8, 9.
(Insight/Matthew,Good News According to)

Have you pondered how many times Matthew must have used Jehovah's name in his gospel?

Let's mention some of those cases, in which direct quotes are made from the Hebrew Scriptures:

Mat.3:3 (Is.40:3)
... 4:4 (Deut.8:3), (...) 7 (Deut.6:16), (...) 10 (Deut.10:20).
... 5:33 (Deut.23:21)
... 21:42 (Sal.118:22,23)
... 22:36-38 (Deut.6:4,5)
... 22:43,44 (Sal.110:1)
... 23:39 (Sal.118:26)
... 27:9,10 (Zac.11:12,13)

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Re: Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

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Post by PinSeeker »

Eloi wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:41 pm In the Biblical Encyclopedia that we Jehovah's Witnesses use...
Yeah, that's kind of the problem. A big part of it, anyway. Sure.

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Re: Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

Post #58

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to PinSeeker in post #58]

That Biblical encyclopedia that eloi mentioned is a beautiful piece of work. It is thoroughly reseasrched, and there couldn't be a better resource for Biblical knowledge. Most of us have ALSO researched in non-JW sources as well, and we have come to conclusions that are as close to the truth as anyone can get.

You should look at the "Insight on the Scriptures" volumes. You might be impressed.

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Re: Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

Post #59

Post by Tcg »

Eloi wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:52 pm We can know that Jehovah's name was mentioned and written by inspired Christians because their service to Jehovah was as important to them as it was to Jehovah's faithful servants until at least 4 centuries before Christ was born, when the last pre-Christian inspired book was written. The Name of Jehovah was written, mentioned and respected until that very time.
This is impossible. Vowels were not added to the English alphabet until around 700 AD. The vowels needed to write the word, "Jehovah" could not have been written before that time.


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Re: Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

Post #60

Post by Eloi »

Tcg wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:15 pm
Eloi wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:52 pm We can know that Jehovah's name was mentioned and written by inspired Christians because their service to Jehovah was as important to them as it was to Jehovah's faithful servants until at least 4 centuries before Christ was born, when the last pre-Christian inspired book was written. The Name of Jehovah was written, mentioned and respected until that very time.
This is impossible. Vowels were not added to the English alphabet until around 700 AD. The vowels needed to write the word, "Jehovah" could not have been written before that time.


Tcg

For me what is impossible is that when someone hears a Jehovah's Witness speak of the Name of God, they still think that we mean a name in English and not a person. Why, instead of removing the whole name out of the Bible, modern versionists of the Bible and their followers don't put/use the Hebrew letters that they do know identify God's person by name: YHWH or JHVH?

Jehovah's Witnesses use the translation of the Hebrew Name of God that is used in each language in which we specifically speak. We all know that they are forms of the Hebrew name and that it is not the exact pronunciation; that has absolutely no bearing on anything ... as if God's name pronounced in Hebrew were an amulet. We, Jehovah's Witness worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ... no matter if we use Jehovah in English, Geova in Italian, Ihowa in Maorí, Ehoba in Japanese, Yehóa in Awabakal, Jehová in Spanish, etc. Jehovah knows that we use his name in every language we speak; He also listens to us because he knows that his name has different forms in different parts of the world.

The name of the biblical James is different in many languages: "Santiago" in Spanish, "Giacomo" in Italian, "James" in English ... Jacobus would be a more precise form. Does anyone not know what biblical character we are referring to? Neither "Jesus" is the original pronuntiation of the name of the Son of Jehovah. Some people say that he is as God as Jehovah ... why are they using that pronunciation? How come they don't show the same recklessness with his name?

Is it too difficult for you to understand what I mean when I say that Jehovah's name was mentioned by Jesus and his disciples and written in the NT autographs? Did they need the Hebrew vowel signs that were later invented to use the name of God that is mentioned about 6,000 times in the Hebrew Scriptures?

I expected more from the readers of this forum.

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