The Atonement

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Revelations won
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The Atonement

Post #1

Post by Revelations won »

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: The Atonement

Post #61

Post by myth-one.com »

Speaking about Adam, onewithhim wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:35 pm There is no reason to think that he will be resurrected.
Except that the Bible states that all mankind will be resurrected:
I Corinthians 15:22-23 wrote:For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #62

Post by onewithhim »

myth-one.com wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:53 pm
Speaking about Adam, onewithhim wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:35 pm There is no reason to think that he will be resurrected.
Except that the Bible states that all mankind will be resurrected:
I Corinthians 15:22-23 wrote:For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
All of non-wicked mankind, of course. When someone is wicked---having deliberately sinned--that person can no longer put Christ to shame by his evil deeds.

"If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and there is a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition. Any man who disregards the law of Moses dies without compassion...Of how much more, do you think, will the man be counted worthy who has trampled upon the Son of God and who has esteemed as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of grace with contempt?" (Hebrews 10:26-29)

Adam knew the truth about God, yet he willfully rebelled against Him. And Jesus died because of his disobedience so Adam certainly wouldn't be given any free pass to finally be covered by Jesus' blood.

.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #63

Post by Revelations won »

Dear Onewithhim,

Quote your last post:

"myth-one.com wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:53 pm
Speaking about Adam, onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:35 pm
There is no reason to think that he will be resurrected.
Except that the Bible states that all mankind will be resurrected:
I Corinthians 15:22-23 wrote:
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
All of non-wicked mankind, of course. When someone is wicked---having deliberately sinned--that person can no longer put Christ to shame by his evil deeds.

"If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and there is a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition. Any man who disregards the law of Moses dies without compassion...Of how much more, do you think, will the man be counted worthy who has trampled upon the Son of God and who has esteemed as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of grace with contempt?" (Hebrews 10:26-29)

Adam knew the truth about God, yet he willfully rebelled against Him. And Jesus died because of his disobedience so Adam certainly wouldn't be given any free pass to finally be covered by Jesus' blood."

I disagree with your stance given in the above post.

First, it is obvious that you are in open denial of 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 since there is nothing ambiguous or in any way unclear regarding the Apostle Paul's testimony.

Second, you have made yourself a judge above Christ and deny his power to judge and atone for the sins of all mankind, including Adam's transgression.

Third, God is sovereign over all his creations and can therefore forgive whom he will forgive, but of us it is required to forgive all mankind since we are not the almighty judge.

Fourth, by your position you have placed yourself above the Lord God of Israel by stating that Christ's atonement cannot atone for and allow repentance for Adam's transgression.

Fifth,You cannot show that Adam had any concept of the far reaching consequences of his decision.

Sixth, you cannot from the scriptures show that he was given any detail regarding what death meant.

Seventh, the first commandment which the Lord gave was to multiply and replenish the earth. This could not be fulfilled inasmuch as Eve would be cast out of the Garden of Eden and Adam would be left a lone man in the garden. There is no statement in Genesis that so states "that Adam's decision was in open rebellion against God". In fact Adam's decision was perhaps a very wise decision since it would allow procreation of the human race.
We should also recognize that the choices of Adam and Eve introduced mortality which further fulfilled God's plan for mankind, for it is obvious that the plan for mortality and the need for the atonement were already predetermined by the foreordination of Christ as the redeemer of ALL mankind was clearly in place before the foundations of the earth were even formed. God's plans are clearly not frustrated and they fail not. Later scripture makes this very clear.

When properly understood we should observe that Adam's choice was perhaps the wisest choice since it set in motion God's foreordained plan for mortal testing and agency for all mankind as a part and parcel of his divine plan for our eternal progress.

In fact, this period of mortal testing with the attending divine God given power of agency has given each and every one of us the freedom or agency to seek either the highest or lowest eternal destiny.

There is nothing that resulted from Adam's choice that Christ has not overcome for all of us, including death. Praise and honor and glory to our savior and redeemer of ALL mankind!

Best wishes,
RW

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Re: The Atonement

Post #64

Post by myth-one.com »

Revelations won wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:55 am Adam knew the truth about God, yet he willfully rebelled against Him. And Jesus died because of his disobedience so Adam certainly wouldn't be given any free pass to finally be covered by Jesus' blood."

I disagree with your stance given in the above post.
There are no "free passes" to anyone.

Humans are presently under the New Testament Covenant between God and mankind. Under that Covenant, man gains salvation from the second death by accepting Jesus as their Savior.

There is no sacrifice involved under the New Testament. Those humans who qualify for the inheritance defined under the New Testament Covenant are given everlasting spiritual life.

The everlasting life which they are given belongs to Jesus Christ!

Jesus earned that everlasting life by living a sinless human life under the Old Testament Covenant. But He will not accept His just inheritance, but offer it freely as a gift to those who believe in Him under the New Testament Covenant.

Thus, salvation is now a gift of God through Jesus Christ!

Sacrifices and such were under the Old Testament as a means to gain forgiveness of sins.

=============================================================

Here is what will happen to Adam:

Since Adam was a human, he is included with mankind under the New Testament Covenant.

He was not a Christian, thus he will be resurrected after the Millennium as a human and face judgment.

Following judgment, if his name is not written in the Book of Life, he will be cast into the lake of fire and suffer the wages for his sins -- which is the second and everlasting death.

If his name is in the Book of Life, he will receive his inheritance of everlasting life by being born again of the Spirit as a spiritual bodied being into the spiritual Kingdom of God.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #65

Post by Eloi »

myth-one.com wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:55 am (...) Since Adam was a human, he is included with mankind under the New Testament Covenant.

He was not a Christian, thus he will be resurrected after the Millennium as a human and face judgment.

Following judgment, if his name is not written in the Book of Life, he will be cast into the lake of fire and suffer the wages for his sins -- which is the second and everlasting death.

If his name is in the Book of Life, he will receive his inheritance of everlasting life by being born again of the Spirit as a spiritual bodied being into the spiritual Kingdom of God.
We, Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe that.
Adam and Eve were perfect when they disobeyed Jehovah.
The ransom is for their descendents, for people who were made imperfect because of our first parents, NOT for them or the rebellious angels.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #66

Post by myth-one.com »

Eloi wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:08 pm We, Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe that.
Adam and Eve were perfect when they disobeyed Jehovah.
The ransom is for their descendents, for people who were made imperfect because of our first parents, NOT for them or the rebellious angels.
Why are you better than Adam & Eve?

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Re: The Atonement

Post #67

Post by Eloi »

myth-one.com wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:06 pm
Eloi wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:08 pm We, Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe that.
Adam and Eve were perfect when they disobeyed Jehovah.
The ransom is for their descendents, for people who were made imperfect because of our first parents, NOT for them or the rebellious angels.
Why are you better than Adam & Eve?
Did I say that? :shock:

I said: when Adam and Eve sinned, they were perfect. Perfect people know what they do. They made their decision completely, without emotional or physical weaknesses or any other kind ... and after that they transferred a defective nature to their children, among whom I am, and you. They sold us, their descendents, under sin, to death.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #68

Post by myth-one.com »

[Replying to Eloi in post #67]

Adam and Eve will be treated fairly & justly under the New Testament Covenant between God and mankind -- as every other human.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #69

Post by Eloi »

myth-one.com wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:41 pm [Replying to Eloi in post #67]

Adam and Eve will be treated fairly & justly under the New Testament Covenant between God and mankind -- as every other human.
They were "treated fairly & justly" when Jehovah condemned them to die.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #70

Post by myth-one.com »

Eloi wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:43 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:41 pm [Replying to Eloi in post #67]

Adam and Eve will be treated fairly & justly under the New Testament Covenant between God and mankind -- as every other human.
They were "treated fairly & justly" when Jehovah condemned them to die.
Yes, they were treated fairly and justly under the Old Testament Covenant.

But that covenant was found to contain a fault, so a new covenant was created to replace the original covenant.

To be fair and just now, all involved will be judged under the New Testament Covenant between God and mankind, which resolved the fault in the original covenant.

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