Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

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Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

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Post by Wootah »

https://biblehub.com/luke/20-38.htm
37Even Moses demonstrates that the dead are raised, in the passage about the burning bush. For he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to Him all are alive.”
Are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob alive or dead right now?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

Post #81

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to tam in post #79]

Tam wrote:
. And tcg is correct, the meaning of the sentence changes, depending upon the placement of the comma. The placement of the comma is what reveals the emphasis of the statement (assuming the scribe knows the correct placement of the comma).
The assumption you bracketed is not soundly based, as I discovered many years ago.


Scribes did not include any speech marks. That is not part of the work of the scribes. Instead, it became part of the work of the translator.



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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

Post #82

Post by 2timothy316 »

Wootah wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:54 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:02 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:30 pm
Wootah wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:01 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:38 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #66]

Christ was saying that "today," that is in this 24-hour day time period, I am telling you this_______. He was not saying that he would be in Paradise within that 24-hour time period with the thief.
Yes because when I talk to my family I say, "Today we are having breakfast. Today we are going shopping. Today you are going to school." When I mean in 1000's of years. And they know that I mean no breakfast for you for 1000's of years.

You are reversing the literal emphasis to be the opposite of the emphasis.
No I'm not. I referred you to three scriptures which showed you Jehovah saying, "TODAY I am telling you this....." That is what Jesus was saying. "TODAY I am telling you....you will be with me in Paradise."
This is correct and here is why.

There is no way for the thief to enter paradise on that very day day of his death. The thief said, “Jesus, remember me when you get into your Kingdom.” (Luke 23:42) Yet Jesus didn't get his kingdom on the day of his death. Jesus was dead for 3 days. (Luke 24:6, 7) If he wasn't in his kingdom then where was he? Acts 2:24 says that Jesus was dead until God resurrected him. So there is no way Jesus could have meant that the thief would enter paradise on that very day.

“Truly, I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise." This where the correct punctuation should be. Noting not the time at when the criminal would enter paradise but noting the time the promise was made. So though one is saying, "Today we are having breakfast. Today we are going shopping." This is fine but, Jesus was saying "today I'm making this promise". There is no time told to the criminal as to when he'd enter paradise.
Jesus was inaugurated as King on that day. Don't you remember the crown (of thorns), the purple robe, the sign above his head that declared him King.
This was a mockery not the crown given to him by God. No man can give Christ his crown. NO scripture says he was crowned as king on that day. He couldn't be given authority until he had fulfilled everything the Bible said he would fulfill. Including presenting himself as an acceptable sacrifice. Which didn't happen until Pentecost 33CE. He was not made king until just before Revelation 12:7-10 took place.
This is why Christians love the cross.
I'm sure Satan loves the cross as well and was pleased with the pain and death it caused. Personally, I have no love for instruments of torture and death.
His Kingdom has been growing ever since for 2021 years.
Growing...really? What exactly what has grown? What are you using as a measurement?
His death was only his human body and 3 days is indicates completeness.
Not according to Acts 2:24, Acts 3:15, Romans 4:24, 1 Cor 6:14, Col 2:12 and Hebrews 13:20. All of these scriptures plainly state he was dead. Not half dead or partly dead. Just dead. None of them say anything nothing about "His death was only his human body". This is your traditional church taught dogma which is not scriptural.
This is a deep theological difference. Are you still waiting for God's kingdom to come? I am a citizen of God's kingdom right now, are you?
It is a deep theological difference. My beliefs are based on that I trust scriptural evidence and yours that you trust the churches traditional doctrines. The Bible says that Jesus was dead for 3 days but you say he was alive during that time. So yeah, pretty big fundamental difference.

God's kingdom was established at the end of the Gentile Times/Appoint Time of the Nations. (Luke 21:24) I declared my dedication to the God of that Kingdom Jehovah God. While I am with God's Kingdom in my heart, I am not physically in His kingdom yet. I am awaiting God's appointed King Jesus Christ to take control of the Earth, which will happen when Revelation 19:11-16 is fulfilled.
Last edited by 2timothy316 on Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:45 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

Post #83

Post by tam »

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #81]

Peace to you Checkpoint!

Modern day scribes (such as a translator, a copyist).

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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

Post #84

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #82]

I'm really glad we found this dividing line. Are these your beliefs or JW beliefs in general?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

Post #85

Post by Checkpoint »

Wootah wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:22 am [Replying to Checkpoint in post #73]

You aren't quoting correctly. But whatever, is anyone willing to give an example of today meaning 1000s of years?
You did not respond to my post #73, but to other posts.

My post contained no no quote from the Bible, and made no reference to any "1000s of years".

Please therefore now give your response to that specific post, #73.

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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

Post #86

Post by 2timothy316 »

Wootah wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:15 pm [Replying to 2timothy316 in post #82]

I'm really glad we found this dividing line. Are these your beliefs or JW beliefs in general?
What the Bible is says are my beliefs.
JWs just happen to be the only group of people I have found that are more concerned with finding the truth about God rather than keeping traditions. If it were baptist that were actually seeking the truth about God then I'd be a baptist, if it were the Catholics then I'd be Catholic and so on. Yet when I examine these religions' doctrines and its people, they are more concerned with traditions and people pleasing rather than seeking the truth of the Bible.

So when I read that the dead know nothing in Ecc 9:5, what I see around me supports that people are dead when they die, that becomes my belief. If the Bible says Jesus was dead for 3 days then that is my belief. Traditions do no drive me to believe Jesus was dead for 3 days. I do not believe something to make people of a religion happy or even my family happy. All I care about is what is true. Why? John 8:31,32, "Then Jesus went on to say to the Jews who had believed him: “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”" Not keeping traditions, not making people happy by believing one way or another. Truth sets one free and makes one a disciple of Jesus Christ. I am free of the traditions that enslave so many others. God's Word is the center of my beliefs not my religion. JWs are the icing on the cake. I'm happy that Jehovah God has grouped His people together, to give me a safe place to believe what the Bible says and I will stay there so long as they keep seeking what is true and not what is tradition.

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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

Post #87

Post by Wootah »

onewithhim wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:42 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #1]

All of the old patriarchs are still dead. The Scripture you quoted says that, although they are dead, they are alive TO HIM. Jehovah remembers every detail about the dead people so that they are alive to him, in his memory. They are not literally alive. I remember that Jesus said that he will resurrect people "in the last day" (John 6:40,44), and this will include Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
That's pretty lame. If that is what God actually means. So when someone says that their dead parents are alive to them do you think they are alive? It is a white lie at best and God isn't a liar - right? At least tell me you don't think God is a liar.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

Post #88

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Wootah wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:03 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:42 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #1]

All of the old patriarchs are still dead. The Scripture you quoted says that, although they are dead, they are alive TO HIM. Jehovah remembers every detail about the dead people so that they are alive to him, in his memory. They are not literally alive. I remember that Jesus said that he will resurrect people "in the last day" (John 6:40,44), and this will include Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
That's pretty lame. If that is what God actually means

"Lame " is a matter if opinion; it is not lame to me nor to any Jehovahs Witness I have spoken to on the subject. Jesus spoke of Lazarus (and Jairus' daughter) as "sleeping" when they were in fact DEAD. Was that "lame" or was that teaching his disciples that for God the death of the righteous is only temporarily just like a nap.




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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

Post #89

Post by myth-one.com »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:39 pm Jesus spoke of Lazarus (and Jairus' daughter) as "sleeping" when they were in fact DEAD. Was that "lame" or was that teaching his disciples that for God the death of the righteous is only temporarily just like a nap.
Jesus is a man, not God.

If Jesus said that Lazarus was sleeping and dead at the same time, and death and life are mutually exclusive, then one of His statements would be a lie.

But Jesus had to live a sinless life to become our Savior. So that is not what happened.

To resolve this problem, one must first understand the biblical definition of death.

The scriptures define true death as being permanent.

The punishment for sin is death:
Romans 6:23 wrote:For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
And that punishment is everlasting:
Matthew 25:46 wrote:And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
But every human who ever lived will be resurrected back to life:
I Corinthians 15:22 wrote:For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Since all will live again after their "first death", then our first death is nor really a "death".

So Jesus was correct in both cases, as He discussed the death of Lazarus from two point of views -- God's and man's.

From man's point of view Lazarus was dead.

From God's point of view, Lazarus was sleeping.

Both statements were true.

The Bible clearly indicates that Jesus spoke "plainly" from man's point of view when He said Lazarus was "dead":
John 11:14 wrote:Then Jesus said unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Did you not understand that??

There is no such thing as a temporary death in the Bible. Every death is everlasting.

Thus, the only real death is the second death!
Remember Uvalde!

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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

Post #90

Post by JehovahsWitness »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:39 pm ... .... for God the death of the righteous is only temporarily just like a nap.
myth-one.com wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:12 pm
From man's point of view Lazarus was dead.

From God's point of view, Lazarus was sleeping.

Isn't that what I said?
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Romans 14:8

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