Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 7954
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 64 times
Been thanked: 42 times

Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

A New Heaven and a New Earth
Revelation 21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”


More quotes taken from: https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-s ... earth.html

Isaiah 65:17-19 - “See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy. I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more.”

2 Peter 3:13 – “But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.”

Revelation 21:1 – “Then I saw ‘a new heaven and a new earth,’ for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.”

Isaiah 66:22 - “‘As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,’ declares the Lord, ‘so will your name and descendants endure.’”


Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

Looking for head to head debates, especially on contradictions or the Trinity. PM me your topic.

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

Edit preferences to remove all the fluff: ucp.php?i=ucp_prefs&mode=view

Checkpoint
Prodigy
Posts: 4025
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:07 pm
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #111

Post by Checkpoint »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:48 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:34 pm
What do I say about what fits where or when? Nothing.
If you dont know (or claim to know but choose to provide no evidence that you do) , where and when judgement day is, there is no reason to accept your explanation about what it is?

Thanks anyway,
JW
What we need to know about Judgment Day is not where or when it is, but what it is and why it is, or will be.

I did not give my own explanation, but God's, from Romans 2.

His explanation is ignored by JWs, in favor of their own unbiblical explanation.

So,
Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak, and prevail when you judge. (Romans 3:4)

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 7443
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 633 times
Been thanked: 147 times

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #112

Post by onewithhim »

Checkpoint wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:11 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:48 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:34 pm
What do I say about what fits where or when? Nothing.
If you dont know (or claim to know but choose to provide no evidence that you do) , where and when judgement day is, there is no reason to accept your explanation about what it is?

Thanks anyway,
JW
What we need to know about Judgment Day is not where or when it is, but what it is and why it is, or will be.

Both JW and I have explained what the Millennium will be.

.

Checkpoint
Prodigy
Posts: 4025
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:07 pm
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #113

Post by Checkpoint »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:17 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:11 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:48 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:34 pm
What do I say about what fits where or when? Nothing.
If you dont know (or claim to know but choose to provide no evidence that you do) , where and when judgement day is, there is no reason to accept your explanation about what it is?

Thanks anyway,
JW
What we need to know about Judgment Day is not where or when it is, but what it is and why it is, or will be.
Both JW and I have explained what the Millennium will be.
Right. You both have, so good for you two, on that count.

But the millennium is not the Day of Judgment, however many times you say it, hear it, read it, or think it.



.

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 7443
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 633 times
Been thanked: 147 times

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #114

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #113]

I have to say---the Millennium IS also the day of judgment. It will be giving everyone the opportunity to make up their minds, during that thousand years, as to who they want to serve. There will be only good things happening during the thousand years, so it truly will be a time of rest and joy. At the END, however, there will be the final say and those that have decided in their hearts to go with Satan will go with him into eternal death and those that stand on Jehovah's side will then be able to live forever on the earth---a true "coming to life." That is the truth, and you can take it or not. Because you deny it doesn't make it untrue.

.

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 5565
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 244 times
Been thanked: 205 times
Contact:

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #115

Post by tam »

May you all have peace,
JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:05 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:28 pm
It will be a judicial process, in which all will give an account of their life to the judge....
And why would every human have to repeat everything they have ever done? Was God not watching ? ( A human judge needs testimonies because he wasn't there and cannot know what the defendent knows, felt or is feeling). God doesnt need anyone to tell him what we have done and why, He already knows.

Checkpoint wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:28 pm An event, in a courtroom setting.
So you believe it will be a metaphoric day but in a non-metaphoric setting?

In bible times JUDGES were not simply there to punish infringements on the law; they were defacto "rulers" that guided the people to live in a way that respected the law. When we read the book of Judges for example we see that the judges played a major role in protecting and fighting for the people but also in helping them to keep to Gods law and thus propser as a nation. In revelation mankind is before a great white THRONE representing rulership and Christ in Revelation 20 acts as both judge and ruler.

CONCLUSION: The idea of a long line of people recounting their lives in a courtroom could not be further from the biblical idea of judgement day presented in scripture. Rather than being a stressful and pointless rehash of the past, biblical judgement day is a delightful period when people can prove what they are by their actions.

People prove who and what they are by their words and deeds right NOW. There are no do-overs. The Judgment (at the end of the thousand years; after Satan is released and after the war of God, wherein those who ride out against the people God loves are devoured by fire from heaven), is of the dead who are resurrected at that time (given up at that time by Death and hades/the world of the dead, and the sea). They are judged according to what they had done, as recorded in their books. That is the accounting of their deeds and words.

The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.

Look at what Christ says here:

For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. 35The good man brings good things out of his good store of treasure, and the evil man brings evil things out of his evil store of treasure. 36But I tell you that men will give an account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.

He's not talking about words and deeds committed during a future, resurrected, thousand year period. He is talking about words and deeds as committed in our lifetime right now.


Of course if one has their name written in the Lamb's book of life, then one does not receive a resurrection of judgment; one instead receives the resurrection of life. And here again we can see that Christ is not speaking about deeds one commits in a future, resurrected, thousand years. But rather what one does in their current life:

Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice 29and come out— those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Have done - past tense. Even the nwt writes this in the past tense:

Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.


May anyone who wishes be given ears to hear to hear the truth of these matters from THE Truth (Christ Jaheshua), and also to hear as the Spirit and the Bride say to you, "Come!" May anyone who wishes and anyone who thirsts, "Come, take the free gift of the water of life!"

(which water is holy spirit, poured out by Christ to whomever He chooses, given to Him without end from His Father)

Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

Checkpoint
Prodigy
Posts: 4025
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:07 pm
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #116

Post by Checkpoint »

onewithhim wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:39 pm [Replying to Checkpoint in post #113]

I have to say---the Millennium IS also the day of judgment. It will be giving everyone the opportunity to make up their minds, during that thousand years, as to who they want to serve. There will be only good things happening during the thousand years, so it truly will be a time of rest and joy. At the END, however, there will be the final say and those that have decided in their hearts to go with Satan will go with him into eternal death and those that stand on Jehovah's side will then be able to live forever on the earth---a true "coming to life." That is the truth, and you can take it or not. Because you deny it doesn't make it untrue.


Well now, onewithhim, I've got to give it to you, you do have a nice story to tell, and you do it each time with such utter confidence.

You take it, hook, line, and sinker, whereas I do not.

Whether we take it or leave it doesn't make it untrue or true.

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 7443
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 633 times
Been thanked: 147 times

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #117

Post by onewithhim »

Checkpoint wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:48 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:39 pm [Replying to Checkpoint in post #113]

I have to say---the Millennium IS also the day of judgment. It will be giving everyone the opportunity to make up their minds, during that thousand years, as to who they want to serve. There will be only good things happening during the thousand years, so it truly will be a time of rest and joy. At the END, however, there will be the final say and those that have decided in their hearts to go with Satan will go with him into eternal death and those that stand on Jehovah's side will then be able to live forever on the earth---a true "coming to life." That is the truth, and you can take it or not. Because you deny it doesn't make it untrue.


Well now, onewithhim, I've got to give it to you, you do have a nice story to tell, and you do it each time with such utter confidence.

You take it, hook, line, and sinker, whereas I do not.

Whether we take it or leave it doesn't make it untrue or true.
Yes, I take it hook, line and sinker. I am happy to witness for Jesus and his Father, Jehovah, in association with their wonderful organization.

You're right....the truth is the truth whether we accept it or not.

.

Checkpoint
Prodigy
Posts: 4025
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:07 pm
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #118

Post by Checkpoint »

onewithhim wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:11 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:48 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:39 pm [Replying to Checkpoint in post #113]

I have to say---the Millennium IS also the day of judgment. It will be giving everyone the opportunity to make up their minds, during that thousand years, as to who they want to serve. There will be only good things happening during the thousand years, so it truly will be a time of rest and joy. At the END, however, there will be the final say and those that have decided in their hearts to go with Satan will go with him into eternal death and those that stand on Jehovah's side will then be able to live forever on the earth---a true "coming to life." That is the truth, and you can take it or not. Because you deny it doesn't make it untrue.


Well now, onewithhim, I've got to give it to you, you do have a nice story to tell, and you do it each time with such utter confidence.

You take it, hook, line, and sinker, whereas I do not.

Whether we take it or leave it doesn't make it untrue or true.
Yes, I take it hook, line and sinker. I am happy to witness for Jesus and his Father, Jehovah, in association with their wonderful organization.

You're right....the truth is the truth whether we accept it or not.

Ah yes, "the truth".

The one mentioned in Jude 3, in the passage I quoted from Romans 2. Not the one that came from the "wonderful organization" you mentioned.

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 7443
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 633 times
Been thanked: 147 times

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #119

Post by onewithhim »

Checkpoint wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:04 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:11 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:48 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:39 pm [Replying to Checkpoint in post #113]

I have to say---the Millennium IS also the day of judgment. It will be giving everyone the opportunity to make up their minds, during that thousand years, as to who they want to serve. There will be only good things happening during the thousand years, so it truly will be a time of rest and joy. At the END, however, there will be the final say and those that have decided in their hearts to go with Satan will go with him into eternal death and those that stand on Jehovah's side will then be able to live forever on the earth---a true "coming to life." That is the truth, and you can take it or not. Because you deny it doesn't make it untrue.


Well now, onewithhim, I've got to give it to you, you do have a nice story to tell, and you do it each time with such utter confidence.

You take it, hook, line, and sinker, whereas I do not.

Whether we take it or leave it doesn't make it untrue or true.
Yes, I take it hook, line and sinker. I am happy to witness for Jesus and his Father, Jehovah, in association with their wonderful organization.

You're right....the truth is the truth whether we accept it or not.

Ah yes, "the truth".

The one mentioned in Jude 3, in the passage I quoted from Romans 2. Not the one that came from the "wonderful organization" you mentioned.
So you are saying that the organization is teaching un-truths? Tell me, what basic truths are we lying about? Are we lying about who God is? Do we dismiss Jesus as insignificant? Are we lying when we point out that the Bible does not teach a literal hell-fire? What are the lies?

This organization teaches nothing unless it comes from the Bible. And we go all the way back to the original languages, unlike many versions today. Even the KJV goes only as far back as the Latin Vulgate. Everything Jehovah's Witnesses teach is backed up solidly from the Bible.

.

Checkpoint
Prodigy
Posts: 4025
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:07 pm
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #120

Post by Checkpoint »

onewithhim wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:22 am
Checkpoint wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:04 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:11 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:48 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:39 pm [Replying to Checkpoint in post #113]

I have to say---the Millennium IS also the day of judgment. It will be giving everyone the opportunity to make up their minds, during that thousand years, as to who they want to serve. There will be only good things happening during the thousand years, so it truly will be a time of rest and joy. At the END, however, there will be the final say and those that have decided in their hearts to go with Satan will go with him into eternal death and those that stand on Jehovah's side will then be able to live forever on the earth---a true "coming to life." That is the truth, and you can take it or not. Because you deny it doesn't make it untrue.

Well now, onewithhim, I've got to give it to you, you do have a nice story to tell, and you do it each time with such utter confidence.

You take it, hook, line, and sinker, whereas I do not.

Whether we take it or leave it doesn't make it untrue or true.
Yes, I take it hook, line and sinker. I am happy to witness for Jesus and his Father, Jehovah, in association with their wonderful organization.

You're right....the truth is the truth whether we accept it or not.
Ah yes, "the truth".

The one mentioned in Jude 3, in the passage I quoted from Romans 2. Not the one that came from the "wonderful organization" you mentioned.
So you are saying that the organization is teaching un-truths? Tell me, what basic truths are we lying about? Are we lying about who God is? Do we dismiss Jesus as insignificant? Are we lying when we point out that the Bible does not teach a literal hell-fire? What are the lies?

This organization teaches nothing unless it comes from the Bible. And we go all the way back to the original languages, unlike many versions today. Even the KJV goes only as far back as the Latin Vulgate. Everything Jehovah's Witnesses teach is backed up solidly from the Bible.
In this exchange, I am referring only to the subject we are discussing, which is Judgment Day.

I do so by quoting Scripture and comparing it with what others say about it.

Post Reply