The Word of God

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William
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The Word of God

Post #1

Post by William »

The Gospels present us with words attributed to have been spoken by biblical Jesus.

Re the Thread Subject, as far as I have been able to examine the claim Christians make that biblical Jesus is "The Word of God", I can find no direct writing which has Jesus making such a claim himself.

I have - of course - found biblical reference of others claiming this about Jesus, but nothing yet of Jesus claiming it of himself.

If we are still to take that claim seriously - even if there is no record of Biblical Jesus making the claim himself ...

QFD: Why is there no known existence of anything Jesus wrote down himself for us to examine?

Should we not expect that someone who may have claimed to be "The Word of God" would have left his own personal record rather than leave that task to others, whom may have misunderstood or even misrepresented him?

Why should we believe The Word of others, [according to them] when all Jesus had to do was write for himself, The Word [according to him]?






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William
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Re: The Word of God

Post #51

Post by William »

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #50]
So if people think that if writings from Jesus were found that everyone would suddenly believe in the Bible they are fooling themselves.
I myself don't think that is the case. My question has to do with why folk refer to the bible or Jesus as 'The Word of God" when neither biblical Jesus nor the bible make that claim.

If Jesus had of written things down himself, then we would at least be able to see any differences between his words and words attributed to him, from others.

As it is, all we have are words attributed to him from others, as well as words said of him by others. And advice that the words must be believed in on 'faith', if one wants to be saved and to live forever.

That's it.

The bible makes an interesting enough set of works of fiction... but as fact, it presents very little - if anything - which can be objectively verified through other sources.

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Re: The Word of God

Post #52

Post by 2timothy316 »

William wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:29 pm [Replying to 2timothy316 in post #50]
So if people think that if writings from Jesus were found that everyone would suddenly believe in the Bible they are fooling themselves.
I myself don't think that is the case. My question has to do with why folk refer to the bible or Jesus as 'The Word of God" when neither biblical Jesus nor the bible make that claim.

If Jesus had of written things down himself, then we would at least be able to see any differences between his words and words attributed to him, from others.

As it is, all we have are words attributed to him from others, as well as words said of him by others. And advice that the words must be believed in on 'faith', if one wants to be saved and to live forever.

That's it.

The bible makes an interesting enough set of works of fiction... but as fact, it presents very little - if anything - which can be objectively verified through other sources.
Your mind is made up which proves my point. People believe whatever they want to believe.

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Re: The Word of God

Post #53

Post by William »

2timothy316 wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:52 pm
William wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:29 pm [Replying to 2timothy316 in post #50]
So if people think that if writings from Jesus were found that everyone would suddenly believe in the Bible they are fooling themselves.
I myself don't think that is the case. My question has to do with why folk refer to the bible or Jesus as 'The Word of God" when neither biblical Jesus nor the bible make that claim.

If Jesus had of written things down himself, then we would at least be able to see any differences between his words and words attributed to him, from others.

As it is, all we have are words attributed to him from others, as well as words said of him by others. And advice that the words must be believed in on 'faith', if one wants to be saved and to live forever.

That's it.

The bible makes an interesting enough set of works of fiction... but as fact, it presents very little - if anything - which can be objectively verified through other sources.
Your mind is made up which proves my point. People believe whatever they want to believe.
My position is "Agnostic Theist" so in that, no - I have definitely reached no conclusion on such matters.

Rather, like everyone else, I read the cards as they present and try to sort the imagery into something coherent. Then I run a critical eye over the image presented and respond to anything questionable which might appear therein.

So when I write something like;

The bible makes an interesting enough set of works of fiction... but as fact, it presents very little - if anything - which can be objectively verified through other sources.

it is not because my mind is made up.

Rather, it is because those are the facts so far presented, and those facts present an interesting fiction rather than an interesting fact...since they are stories which cannot be objectively verified through other sources.

If any such evidence does surface, I will add that to the rest of the imagery and see if coherency is then able to be discovered, that the fiction can honestly be referred to as fact.

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Re: The Word of God

Post #54

Post by 2timothy316 »

William wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:15 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:52 pm
William wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:29 pm [Replying to 2timothy316 in post #50]
So if people think that if writings from Jesus were found that everyone would suddenly believe in the Bible they are fooling themselves.
I myself don't think that is the case. My question has to do with why folk refer to the bible or Jesus as 'The Word of God" when neither biblical Jesus nor the bible make that claim.

If Jesus had of written things down himself, then we would at least be able to see any differences between his words and words attributed to him, from others.

As it is, all we have are words attributed to him from others, as well as words said of him by others. And advice that the words must be believed in on 'faith', if one wants to be saved and to live forever.

That's it.

The bible makes an interesting enough set of works of fiction... but as fact, it presents very little - if anything - which can be objectively verified through other sources.
Your mind is made up which proves my point. People believe whatever they want to believe.
My position is "Agnostic Theist" so in that, no - I have definitely reached no conclusion on such matters.

Rather, like everyone else, I read the cards as they present and try to sort the imagery into something coherent. Then I run a critical eye over the image presented and respond to anything questionable which might appear therein.

So when I write something like;

The bible makes an interesting enough set of works of fiction... but as fact, it presents very little - if anything - which can be objectively verified through other sources.

it is not because my mind is made up.

Rather, it is because those are the facts so far presented, and those facts present an interesting fiction rather than an interesting fact...since they are stories which cannot be objectively verified through other sources.

If any such evidence does surface, I will add that to the rest of the imagery and see if coherency is then able to be discovered, that the fiction can honestly be referred to as fact.
Whatever you need to tell yourself. That's what I used to do too.

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Re: The Word of God

Post #55

Post by otseng »

2timothy316 wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:13 pm Whatever you need to tell yourself. That's what I used to do too.
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Re: The Word of God

Post #56

Post by William »

Tcg wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:57 pm
William wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:53 pm [Replying to 2timothy316 in post #39]
So would a person that doesn't believe that the Bible is the Word of God suddenly believe it is because Jesus wrote one of the books?
Hard to say. Perhaps anything Jesus wrote would conflict so much with what the Christians wrote, that it could not possibly been seen to belong in the bible.
That might also explain why, if Jesus did write anything down, it isn't seen to be anywhere in the bible.

Maybe the early followers did have writing from Jesus, and the Romans made sure it never saw the light of day, or found its way into the bible?

As it stands, the bible doesn't appear to refer to itself as 'The Word of God' anyway...any more than Jesus did.
The question is only asked because Christians claim the bible is 'The Word of God'.
Or perhaps we have nothing in Jesus' hand because he never wrote in anything other than dirt that one time.


Tcg
This explanation doesn't tell us why though.

Even if we accept the biblical Jesus [BJ] didn't know how to write, why had he not learned to do so, if he felt his words were as important as Christians make out they are?

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