Brother. Where art thou?

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William
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Brother. Where art thou?

Post #1

Post by William »

Matt's Gospel
Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.


and;

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.


Recently I had the misfortune of being accused of offending someone and someone else reported my offence to the authorities and without any further ado, I was penalized for it.

I cannot reveal the details of the case as it is soon to be under review [once I have finished documenting the details, and delivering these to the lawyers involved], but it got me to thinking about the alleged offence and the fact that I was not consulted because the evidence was accepted by the authority which received the complaint, as enough to warrant my being penalized.

Thus I simply had to pay the penalty [it was published and I first heard about it through the public domain] and now am lodging an appeal against the decision.

I have not been informed as to the identity of the complainant.

Based on the information re this situation and in relation to the script from Matts gospel;

QFD: Is it safe for me to assume, that it would not have been a Christian who lodged the complaint against me?

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Miles
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Re: Brother. Where art thou?

Post #2

Post by Miles »

William wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:35 pm Recently I had the misfortune of being accused of offending someone and someone else reported my offence to the authorities and without any further ado, I was penalized for it.

I cannot reveal the details of the case as it is soon to be under review [once I have finished documenting the details, and delivering these to the lawyers involved], but it got me to thinking about the alleged offence and the fact that I was not consulted because the evidence was accepted by the authority which received the complaint, as enough to warrant my being penalized.

Thus I simply had to pay the penalty [it was published and I first heard about it through the public domain] and now am lodging an appeal against the decision.

I have not been informed as to the identity of the complainant.

Based on the information re this situation and in relation to the script from Matts gospel;

QFD: Is it safe for me to assume, that it would not have been a Christian who lodged the complaint against me?


Hmmmm. Was the supposed offense of a religious nature? And is it fair to assume they know you're a theist, or that they assume you're a Christian?


.

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William
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Re: Brother. Where art thou?

Post #3

Post by William »

[Replying to Miles in post #2]
Hmmmm. Was the supposed offense of a religious nature?
Should it have to be? That is part of the answer I am looking for. Has the scripty advice only to do with religious matters or does it extend into all facets of a Christian life-stuff?
And is it fair to assume they know you're a theist, or that they assume you're a Christian?
I don't understand the question. Can you elaborate?

I too will elaborate;

I am wanting to know if this scriptural advice is meant to be enacted across the board, and if so, I can eliminate the idea that a Christian did the complaining about me, because a Christian would have come to me in the privacy of one2one and sought to seek solution before all that public eyeballing and hurtful feelings became a reality.

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Re: Brother. Where art thou?

Post #4

Post by Miles »

William wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:55 pm [Replying to Miles in post #2]
Hmmmm. Was the supposed offense of a religious nature?
Should it have to be?
If I ask because you brought "a Christian" into your question.

That is part of the answer I am looking for. Has the scripty advice only to do with religious matters or does it extend into all facets of a Christian life-stuff?
And is it fair to assume they know you're a theist, or that they assume you're a Christian?
I don't understand the question. Can you elaborate?
I ask because you appear to feel religion could have played some part in the complaint against you. If you don't feel Christianity or religion itself is of any concern here, I withdraw my questions and will go back to my corner and nap. O:) Sorry for the interruption.


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Re: Brother. Where art thou?

Post #5

Post by William »

[Replying to Miles in post #4]
If I ask because you brought "a Christian" into your question.
I ask because you appear to feel religion could have played some part in the complaint against you. If you don't feel Christianity or religion itself is of any concern here, I withdraw my questions and will go back to my corner and nap. O:) Sorry for the interruption.
The scenario was only offered as an example in which to test the question.

The question is one which is asked of Christians/Christianity, but it is not limited to only those who identify as such, to answer.

I am interested in your answer, and reasons if you have them to offer.

My own understanding of the advice, is that it should be the way to proceed. If I have any issue with anyone, I should take it to them first and see if it cannot be sorted out amicably without the need for any other intervention.

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Re: Brother. Where art thou?

Post #6

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:37 pm
My own understanding of the advice, is that it should be the way to proceed. If I have any issue with anyone, I should take it to them first and see if it cannot be sorted out amicably without the need for any other intervention.
That is correct and generally a good principle to go by, but it should be noted that Jesus was outlining ecclesiastical procedure . Perhaps in certain secular or criminal matters seeking out ones accuser for an interview without witnesses, might not be the wisest thing to do.
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Re: Brother. Where art thou?

Post #7

Post by 1213 »

William wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:35 pm ...
QFD: Is it safe for me to assume, that it would not have been a Christian who lodged the complaint against me?
Christians are not perfect. It is possible that people who claim to be Christian don't do as told in the Bible, many of them don't necessary even know what is said in the Bible, unfortunately. But, if the person is a Christians, I think he should have done it as said in the Bible, in any case.

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Re: Brother. Where art thou?

Post #8

Post by William »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:07 am
William wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:37 pm
My own understanding of the advice, is that it should be the way to proceed. If I have any issue with anyone, I should take it to them first and see if it cannot be sorted out amicably without the need for any other intervention.
That is correct and generally a good principle to go by, but it should be noted that Jesus was outlining ecclesiastical procedure . Perhaps in certain secular or criminal matters seeking out ones accuser for an interview without witnesses, might not be the wisest thing to do.
ecclesiastical procedure

It may be the case that this is what Jesus was outlining. Which group was he advising at the time, the general public or the priesthood?

I would agree that in certain matters it would not be the wisest thing to do, but in such matters as the example the OP offers, is it the best thing to do?

In that example, can it be said that a Christian would not have been the one who did the complaining, because that is not the way Biblical Jesus instructed such things to be handled?

Or is it a matter that times have changed and what may have been wise advice in BJ's world, is not so wise in todays world?

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Re: Brother. Where art thou?

Post #9

Post by William »

1213 wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:20 am
William wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:35 pm ...
QFD: Is it safe for me to assume, that it would not have been a Christian who lodged the complaint against me?
Christians are not perfect. It is possible that people who claim to be Christian don't do as told in the Bible, many of them don't necessary even know what is said in the Bible, unfortunately. But, if the person is a Christians, I think he should have done it as said in the Bible, in any case.
So, it could be argued from this, that the complainant might call him/herself a "Christian" but because they did not follow the teaching of BJ, they are lying?

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Re: Brother. Where art thou?

Post #10

Post by bjs1 »

William wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:35 pm Matt's Gospel
QFD: Is it safe for me to assume, that it would not have been a Christian who lodged the complaint against me?


No. This passage refers to the interactions between Christians. If you are not a Christian then there is no expectation for you to obey Christian standards of conduct. You are also not bound by the authority of the church, which is the only authority the passage in Matthew references.

A person cannot deny the authority of the church as a general rule, and then rely on the authority of the church when it would be beneficial for him/her to do so.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
-Charles Darwin

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