Questions About JWs' History and the Anointed Class

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Questions About JWs' History and the Anointed Class

Post #1

Post by Skeptical »

I have a few questions about JWs' history concerning their anointed class. But these questions are open not just to JWs, but to anyone who has knowledge about their anointed class. Therefore, what is JWs' belief regarding their anointed class and how do they know from scripture that there is an anointed class and an earthly class of Christians? Because from what I know, JWs wasn't aware of this concept until the year 1935. Also, there was supposed to have been the belief that only 144,000 Christians were of the anointed class, but when their organization outgrew that number, they were supposed to have had an epiphany that there were two classes: a 144,000 anointed heavenly class and a numberless class of earth-bound Christian who were supposed to live in a new system on earth.

Also, from what I recall about their history, there was supposed to be some sort of calculations about how many anointed 'real' Christians existed in the first century and then all the way up to the latter part of the 19th century/the late 1800s. And at first that belief was pretty set until as I had already mentioned, the numbers started to grow in the year 1935. But then for a while, JWs had the belief that the number for the anointed class would continue to shrink while the number of the earthly Christians (or the great crowd as they are also called) continued to grow. Plus, JWs' annual celebration of the Memorial (of Jesus' death) would also serve as a count as to how many of the anointed class still existed on earth based upon who partook of the emblems during that celebration. And for a while, those numbers were shrinking because it was said that those anointed JWs from the early 1900s were slowly dying off.

However, as time went on, I think that it was in the 1990s that the number of the Memorial partakers started to increase and which threw a lot of people off as far as that being a barometer of the anointed class dying off and an indicator of how close the end of the world was. But then I think in the early 2000s, there was a big shift in doctrine and that all the anointed class around the world who were also thought of as the faithful and discreet slave class were no longer considered the faithful and discreet slave class, and only a small group of anointed men (and no women) in New York were only classified as being the faithful and discreet slave class.

Also, the new interpretation of the faithful and discreet slave class no longer had the description of very elderly anointed members from the early 1900s who had all but died off, but now younger men in the 50s and 60s were interpretated as being the anointed faithful and discreet slave class. Therefore, is there anyone who understands this and how this belief could have possibility have changed? Because at one time, these doctrines and beliefs were truths that came from God. Therefore, I don't quite understand how all that could have been gospel truth at one time, but then it was decided that all these beliefs were mistaken. πŸ€” πŸ€” πŸ€”

P.S. Oh, and BTW, JWs interpretation of 1 Corinthians 15:51–52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 were involved where it was believed that the elderly anointed JWs from the early 1900s who had died, had been instantly transformed into powerful spirit beings who were filling up the number of 144,000 in heaven. (Revelation 7:3-4) However, I supposed that JWs now believe that the number that is supposed to be eventually sealed and filled is constantly in flux now? πŸ€” And that it's pretty common that someone who was sealed can be unsealed and open up a new spot in heaven for the anointed? πŸ€”

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Re: Questions About JWs' History and the Anointed Class

Post #2

Post by Skeptical »

Wow... What a waste of time and effort. lol πŸ˜‚...πŸ™„

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Re: Questions About JWs' History and the Anointed Class

Post #3

Post by Skeptical »

Also, does ANYONE KNOW if JWs still believe all of this? Plus, I was wondering if JWs are avoiding this topic because they want to save face? πŸ€” πŸ€” πŸ€”

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Re: Questions About JWs' History and the Anointed Class

Post #4

Post by 2timothy316 »

Since you're new here I'm guessing you don't know about the "Questions for a Group" forum. It is strictly to ask questions of a group and get an answer but it is not a debate forum. Judging by your numerous thread targeting JWs specifically maybe try going there. Yet, If you argue or make abusive remarks like the one's in this thread your thread will get shut down.

viewforum.php?f=45
Purpose of the forum:
"The intent of this subforum is to allow members to ask questions directed towards a particular group of people (Christians, Atheists, Ex-Christians, Democrats, Fundamentalists, etc). Debating is not allowed here. Any comments considered to be demeaning or sarcastic about any groups will not be tolerated. The purpose here is simply to gain knowledge from others about a particular group. If the conversation leads to something that you want to debate, then open a new debate topic in the appropriate debate subforum."
viewtopic.php?t=9205

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Re: Questions About JWs' History and the Anointed Class

Post #5

Post by Miles »

Skeptical wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:00 pm Also, does ANYONE KNOW if JWs still believe all of this? Plus, I was wondering if JWs are avoiding this topic because they want to save face? πŸ€” πŸ€” πŸ€”
Certainly they still believe it.

"The 'anointed'
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that exactly 144,000 faithful Christians go to heaven to rule with Christ in the kingdom of God.
*
*
The Witnesses understand Jesus’ words at John 3:3β€”"except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God"β€”to apply to the 144,000 who are "born again" as "anointed" sons of God in heaven.
source: Wikipedia Jehovah's Witnesses and salvation

Unfortunately, some JWs believe not all 144,000 seats have been filled and that there's room for them.

"The members of the Governing Body who exercise teaching authority over Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide claim to be among the anointed 144,000, and also consider themselves as a group to be the faithful and discreet slave of Matthew 24:45 and Luke 12:42."
source: Wikipedia. "Jehovah's Witnesses. Main article: The 'anointed' (Jehovah's Witnesses and salvation)

I say Unfortunately because according to the Bible all 144,000 were taken long ago.

Revelation 7:1-8
1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, 3 saying, β€œDo not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

5
12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed,
12,000 from the tribe of Reuben,
12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
6
12,000 from the tribe of Asher,
12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali,
12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
7
12,000 from the tribe of Simeon,
12,000 from the tribe of Levi,
12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
8
12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun,
12,000 from the tribe of Joseph,
12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.


Revelation 14:1
Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.


Live in a dream world, Die in a dream world. :mrgreen:

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Re: Questions About JWs' History and the Anointed Class

Post #6

Post by Skeptical »

2timothy316 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2023 1:32 pm Since you're new here I'm guessing you don't know about the "Questions for a Group" forum. It is strictly to ask questions of a group and get an answer but it is not a debate forum. Judging by your numerous thread targeting JWs specifically maybe try going there. Yet, If you argue or make abusive remarks like the one's in this thread your thread will get shut down.
What abusive remarks?
2timothy316 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2023 1:32 pm viewforum.php?f=45
Purpose of the forum:
"The intent of this subforum is to allow members to ask questions directed towards a particular group of people (Christians, Atheists, Ex-Christians, Democrats, Fundamentalists, etc). Debating is not allowed here. Any comments considered to be demeaning or sarcastic about any groups will not be tolerated. The purpose here is simply to gain knowledge from others about a particular group. If the conversation leads to something that you want to debate, then open a new debate topic in the appropriate debate subforum."
viewtopic.php?t=9205
But I do want to debate this. That is why I put it in this forum.

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Re: Questions About JWs' History and the Anointed Class

Post #7

Post by Skeptical »

Miles wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2023 3:42 pm
Skeptical wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:00 pm Also, does ANYONE KNOW if JWs still believe all of this? Plus, I was wondering if JWs are avoiding this topic because they want to save face? πŸ€” πŸ€” πŸ€”
Certainly they still believe it.

"The 'anointed'
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that exactly 144,000 faithful Christians go to heaven to rule with Christ in the kingdom of God.
*
*
The Witnesses understand Jesus’ words at John 3:3β€”"except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God"β€”to apply to the 144,000 who are "born again" as "anointed" sons of God in heaven.
source: Wikipedia Jehovah's Witnesses and salvation

Unfortunately, some JWs believe not all 144,000 seats have been filled and that there's room for them.

"The members of the Governing Body who exercise teaching authority over Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide claim to be among the anointed 144,000, and also consider themselves as a group to be the faithful and discreet slave of Matthew 24:45 and Luke 12:42."
source: Wikipedia. "Jehovah's Witnesses. Main article: The 'anointed' (Jehovah's Witnesses and salvation)
But how does that work? Because wouldn't eventually that small number of the supposedly "little flock" be filled up?

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Re: Questions About JWs' History and the Anointed Class

Post #8

Post by 2timothy316 »

Skeptical wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 1:57 am But I do want to debate this. That is why I put it in this forum.
Then I doubt you're get any takers. The JWs here roll their eyes at yet another post about the FDS, you're not the first one BTW and I for one am tired of trying to explain something to people that don't understand or don't accept the basics of the Bible. Its a waste of time. So, yes you did waste your time and effort if you are looking for a debate. And others here don't know enough about it to debate it or more truthfully don't care about it.

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Re: Questions About JWs' History and the Anointed Class

Post #9

Post by Miles »

Skeptical wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 2:03 am
Miles wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2023 3:42 pm
Skeptical wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:00 pm Also, does ANYONE KNOW if JWs still believe all of this? Plus, I was wondering if JWs are avoiding this topic because they want to save face? πŸ€” πŸ€” πŸ€”
Certainly they still believe it.

"The 'anointed'
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that exactly 144,000 faithful Christians go to heaven to rule with Christ in the kingdom of God.
*
*
The Witnesses understand Jesus’ words at John 3:3β€”"except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God"β€”to apply to the 144,000 who are "born again" as "anointed" sons of God in heaven.
source: Wikipedia Jehovah's Witnesses and salvation

Unfortunately, some JWs believe not all 144,000 seats have been filled and that there's room for them.

"The members of the Governing Body who exercise teaching authority over Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide claim to be among the anointed 144,000, and also consider themselves as a group to be the faithful and discreet slave of Matthew 24:45 and Luke 12:42."
source: Wikipedia. "Jehovah's Witnesses. Main article: The 'anointed' (Jehovah's Witnesses and salvation)
But how does that work? Because wouldn't eventually that small number of the supposedly "little flock" be filled up?
They're the ones bending scripture so you'd have to ask them. ;)


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Re: Questions About JWs' History and the Anointed Class

Post #10

Post by Skeptical »

2timothy316 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 8:34 am
Skeptical wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 1:57 am But I do want to debate this. That is why I put it in this forum.
Then I doubt you're get any takers. The JWs here roll their eyes at yet another post about the FDS, you're not the first one BTW and I for one am tired of trying to explain something to people that don't understand or don't accept the basics of the Bible. Its a waste of time.
But I'm not people... I'm me, and you haven't had this discussion with me yet. πŸ˜‰
2timothy316 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 8:34 am So, yes you did waste your time and effort if you are looking for a debate. And others here don't know enough about it to debate it or more truthfully don't care about it.
So, do you mean "others" as in other JWs don't know enough about it to debate it... or other non-JWs don't know enough about it to debate it? Because if it's the former, then that's sad. πŸ˜•

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