Star of Bethlehem -- Third Attempt

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Zzyzx
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Star of Bethlehem -- Third Attempt

Post #1

Post by Zzyzx »

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We are going to attempt this again.
Zzyzx wrote:
ST_JB wrote:I am accepting the terms and format as you have suggested from the other thread.

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 0&start=50
Zzyzx wrote:Okay, if you propose accepting the terms of the January 2009 thread, I am willing. I do not consider it as favoring either of us. If you agree we can proceed with the H2H debate.
ZZ: Proposal for Head to Head debate:

Topic: Is the "Star of Bethlehem" story literally true as written in Matthew 2:1-12?
Matthew2:1After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem 2and asked, "Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him."

3When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. 4When he had called together all the people's chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Christ was to be born. 5"In Bethlehem in Judea," they replied, "for this is what the prophet has written: 6" 'But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for out of you will come a ruler who will be the shepherd of my people Israel.'"

7Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. 8He sent them to Bethlehem and said, "Go and make a careful search for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him."

9After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen in the east went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was. 10When they saw the star, they were overjoyed. 11On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh. 12And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another route.

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I accept the above exactly as it stands -- no more, no less.
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Non-Theist

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

Zzyzx
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Post #2

Post by Zzyzx »

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Zzyzx post 1 of 10

According to the bible tale (Matthew 2:9) "After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen in the east went ahead of them[/u until it stopped over the place where the child was. 10When they saw the star, they were overjoyed".

My position includes that stars do not "go ahead of" anyone as claimed in the tale and that stars do not stop over a location.

I do not pretend or purport to know what happened or did not happen "long ago in a land far away", but I maintain that the story of the star conflicts with what we know of astronomy, astrophysics and Earth dynamics. If one claims to know what happened (or to maintain that the story is true), they are expected to explain the deviation from what is known of astronomy, astrophysics and Earth dynamics.

Critical questions (as per agreed format #5 "Answer honestly, openly and fully to the best of ability the two critical questions last asked by opposition or acknowledge inability or unwillingness. Answer any other questions optionally as judgment indicates)".

1) How can anyone KNOW, exactly, what the "star" mentioned ACTUALLY was? (Note: this is NOT asking for guesses or possibilities).

2) How, exactly, does / can a star STOP over a given location? (Note: this IS asking for explanation of deviation from known star characteristics and apparent motion)
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Non-Theist

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

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