The God Delusion - Chapter 9

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otseng
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The God Delusion - Chapter 9

Post #1

Post by otseng »

Is it a form of child abuse to label children as possessors of beliefs when they are too young to have thought about it?

Should the Bible be a part of public education?

McCulloch's question:
Is the indoctrination of children into religious beliefs morally justified?

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Post by McCulloch »

Only if the religious belief can be shown to be true. :D
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

twobitsmedia

Re: The God Delusion - Chapter 9

Post #3

Post by twobitsmedia »

otseng wrote: Should the Bible be a part of public education?
Absolutely. It is an important part of American Life. Even if it has to be presented with a disclaimer that says "theory", it is a reality that cannot be denied. It is a piece of literature that has sold more than any publication in history. It has affected peoples lives--good and bad-- in more ways that any publication

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Re: The God Delusion - Chapter 9

Post #4

Post by otseng »

twobitsmedia wrote:
otseng wrote: Should the Bible be a part of public education?
Absolutely. It is an important part of American Life. Even if it has to be presented with a disclaimer that says "theory", it is a reality that cannot be denied. It is a piece of literature that has sold more than any publication in history. It has affected peoples lives--good and bad-- in more ways that any publication
Not only American life, but also in other countries that has had any Biblical influence.

Dawkins surprised me with his position.
page 341 wrote:But the main reason the English Bible needs to be part of our education is that it is a major source book for literary culture.
Of course, he doesn't believe in the Bible, but he does say people should be literate about it.
page 344 wrote:I have probably said enough to convince at least my older readers that an atheistic world-view provides no justication for cutting the Bible, and other sacred books, out of our education.

twobitsmedia

Re: The God Delusion - Chapter 9

Post #5

Post by twobitsmedia »

otseng wrote:
twobitsmedia wrote:
otseng wrote: Should the Bible be a part of public education?
Absolutely. It is an important part of American Life. Even if it has to be presented with a disclaimer that says "theory", it is a reality that cannot be denied. It is a piece of literature that has sold more than any publication in history. It has affected peoples lives--good and bad-- in more ways that any publication
Not only American life, but also in other countries that has had any Biblical influence.

Dawkins surprised me with his position.
page 341 wrote:But the main reason the English Bible needs to be part of our education is that it is a major source book for literary culture.
Of course, he doesn't believe in the Bible, but he does say people should be literate about it.
page 344 wrote:I have probably said enough to convince at least my older readers that an atheistic world-view provides no justication for cutting the Bible, and other sacred books, out of our education.
Yes, I noticed he was equating it with great Greek mythology, but, at least he was not discarding its value altogether. Of course, if the Bible was disposed of altogether, then Dawkins wouldn't have anything else to write about. His career depends on the existance of religion too much.

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Re: The God Delusion - Chapter 9

Post #6

Post by McCulloch »

otseng wrote:Should the Bible be a part of public education?
twobitsmedia wrote:Absolutely. It is an important part of American Life. Even if it has to be presented with a disclaimer that says "theory", it is a reality that cannot be denied. It is a piece of literature that has sold more than any publication in history. It has affected peoples lives--good and bad-- in more ways that any publication
The Bible's influence on society should be part of everyone's study of history and anthropology. But so should the Classical Greek myths, the Koran, the divine right of kings, manifest destiny, white man's burden and mercantilism.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

twobitsmedia

Re: The God Delusion - Chapter 9

Post #7

Post by twobitsmedia »

McCulloch wrote:
otseng wrote:Should the Bible be a part of public education?
twobitsmedia wrote:Absolutely. It is an important part of American Life. Even if it has to be presented with a disclaimer that says "theory", it is a reality that cannot be denied. It is a piece of literature that has sold more than any publication in history. It has affected peoples lives--good and bad-- in more ways that any publication
The Bible's influence on society should be part of everyone's study of history and anthropology. But so should the Classical Greek myths, the Koran, the divine right of kings, manifest destiny, white man's burden and mercantilism.
I agree, and I think that was Dawkins point in equating it with Greek mythology. I would venture a guess, though, that the Bible has had more historical influence than any of the publications you mentioned all together.

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Re: The God Delusion - Chapter 9

Post #8

Post by Confused »

otseng wrote:Is it a form of child abuse to label children as possessors of beliefs when they are too young to have thought about it?

Should the Bible be a part of public education?

McCulloch's question:
Is the indoctrination of children into religious beliefs morally justified?
I think that if it was to be an elective such as "Ancient Literature" as it is in college (except it is an English Lit course), then if that is one a high schooler want to take, it is ok.

But public education is funded by the government/state. There is a separation between church and state. If the bible is to be offered to be taught, it shouldn't be at the cost of the taxpayers.

I think that exposing children to religious doctrine is important only because of my own major confusion resulting from no exposure as a child, then exposure as an adult and the lack of information to make an informed decision. However, I have put myself in a predicament by allowing for my daughter to attend sunday school because I don't want to influence her own ability to think things through by instilling my belief. Instead, I have been resorting to saying things like "Kaitlin, think that through, how could X happen?" And we work it through. It works on some things, not on others.

I have to read further on what Dawkins says so this post is mostly my own opinion.
Last edited by Confused on Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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twobitsmedia

Re: The God Delusion - Chapter 9

Post #9

Post by twobitsmedia »

Confused wrote:
But public education is funded by the government/state. There is a separation between church and state. If the bible is to be offered to be taught, it shouldn't be at the cost of the taxpayers.
I think "separation of church and state" is more propaganda used by the left and the right to fit their cause, than it is reality. So, if a school district wants to teach creationism, or mormonism or whatever "ism," they should be allowed. The First Amendment should stop the govt from interfering in their right to do so. Kansas just went through that debate last year and the board voted in favor of allowing creationism to be taught in Kansas schools. My taxes are funding a war, eminent domain, limited issues with abortion, and an internal revenue system that I think is corrupt, among other things I disagree with. Once it goes to "Ceasar" it belongs to "Ceasar"....he does what he wants with it.

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Re: The God Delusion - Chapter 9

Post #10

Post by McCulloch »

otseng wrote:Should the Bible be a part of public education?
twobitsmedia wrote:Absolutely. It is an important part of American Life. Even if it has to be presented with a disclaimer that says "theory", it is a reality that cannot be denied. It is a piece of literature that has sold more than any publication in history. It has affected peoples lives--good and bad-- in more ways that any publication
McCulloch wrote:The Bible's influence on society should be part of everyone's study of history and anthropology. But so should the Classical Greek myths, the Koran, the divine right of kings, manifest destiny, white man's burden and mercantilism.
twobitsmedia wrote:I agree, and I think that was Dawkins point in equating it with Greek mythology. I would venture a guess, though, that the Bible has had more historical influence than any of the publications you mentioned all together.
The Bible should only be taught in public education in so far as it has been an important influence on our societies. The Bible should not be taught at public expense as a source of truth, ethics or divine revelation. That would be a violation of public secularism.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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