Why do some people believe mormons are not christian?

[Kuan]

So, you can probably tell I'm Mormon and I'm willing to debate my religion or answer questions. The purpose of this thread though is that I have had many people tell me I'm not Christian even though I believe in Jesus. I'm wondering why that is. Thanks for any answers!

[Kuan]

Smith named his church the Church of Christ in 1829-30. It became the Church of Jesus Christ in 1834 and Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in 1838.

Hello McCulluch,

Actually the history of the church's name is a little more complicated than the above. Being ex LDS I looked into it because part of the churches claim to fame is that they have Jesus in there name. It started as you wrote with the name Church of Christ. Then the church split into two groups. The Eastern group where JS was changed their name to the Church of latter day saints. The group further west under the leadership of someone else named his the church of Jesus Christ. JS had some financial problems and had to come west. He sort of combined the two names into the COJCOLDS.

Sleepyhead, Havent we been over this already? JS was murdered before the two churches separated. He never made it out west.

Hello mormonboy,

In the 1830's there was a major group of saints in Ohio. They built the kirkland temple. JS was the leader of this group. They were known as the church of latter day saints. There was another group further west (probably either missouri or Illinois). They were known as the Church of Jesus Christ. JS would have had very limited involvement with this second group. The plague on the Kirkland temple will say Church of LDS. The printing history on your D&C will give the 2nd printing as being for the Church of LDS.
At some time becuase of his financial dealings JS had to leave Ohio for (probably) Missouri. When he did he changed the name of the complete church to it's present name.
PS. Some minor details of the above may not be true. I'm not a historian.

I see what you were saying, there was a misunderstanding. As I think we went over this, I screwed up again. When you refer to two groups and one being farther west, I assumed that you were referring to the time when the LDS church was starting to send out pioneers and settling Utah. The CoJCoLDS church did run into financial trouble along with more persecution and they left for Missouri and Illinois. That was when they started the Far West, Hauns Mill, and Nauvoo settlements. I am sorry, your were correct.

[Slopeshoulder]

Actually the knowledge of the bible is proven. Not only are many historical events in line with the bible, but William Lane Craig has written extensively on the subject. Unless I am mistaken I believe he spent several years proving the bible. If you gve me a little time I will look around for some sources.

Oh lordy. Not him again.
William Lane Craig is a marginal figure in serious theological circles. He's proven nothing.
I advise readers to read more respected, credible and nuanced scholars, perhaps less tainted by an apogetic agenda. There are MANY to choose from. After 30 years of theological study, 5 of it formal and full time, I never heard of that joker until I came here.

[Burninglight]

So, you can probably tell I'm Mormon and I'm willing to debate my religion or answer questions. The purpose of this thread though is that I have had many people tell me I'm not Christian even though I believe in Jesus. I'm wondering why that is. Thanks for any answers!

It is because your Jesus is a different Jesus and your message is a different gospel which is no gospel at all. I have look at the crucifixion video Mormons put out. It is flawless and well done, but that is the truth they use to bait you; then, they teach weird things like Jesus is Satan's spiritual brother. Now, how can Jesus be the spiritual brother of His own creation? Joseph Smith pulled a Muhammad (no peace be upon him), and he was successful, but not quite as much as Muhammad. They are both false prophets but share a lot in common. I hope that helps.
Grace and Truth

[Burninglight]

Historically, only until recently have Mormons wanted to be called Christians, preferring not to be included with Christian denominations, which Joseph Smith said were, "all wrong ... all their creeds were an admonition in his sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt" (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, 2:18-19).

Mormons have preferred to be called "saints"; however, in the recent years the LDS church has spent millions in an intense "PR" campaign aimed at moving the church into the mainstream of Christianity. The political and economic benefits of Mormons being included in the mainstream of Christianity are obvious. Further, for Mormons to be accepted as traditional Christians would greatly aid in proselytizing the members of Christian denominations into the LDS church. This is why the LDS church is trying so hard to present itself as Christian and is trying to overcome the stigma of being a cult.

The answer to the question, "Are Mormons Christians," is simple. They are not Christians for several reasons, and their unbiblical doctrines show them to be a "Christian" cult.

The name Christian was first used, as Acts 11:26 records, to identify the disciples of Jesus Christ. The word "Christian" is the Greek word "christianos," and it means an adherent of Jesus Christ. It literally means "Christ ones" (Acts 11:26, 26:28, 1 Peter 4:16). The correct definition of the word is one who is a follower of the Jesus Christ of the Bible. For almost two thousand years it has never had a reference to anyone other that the historical Jesus Christ of the New Testament.


Why Mormons Are Not Christian.

First: Mormons do not follow or believe in the historic Jesus Christ of the Bible, but rather in a difference Jesus. This is why most Biblical Christians emphatically insist that Mormons are not Christians. Let me explain.

The god of the Mormons is not the God of the Bible. To the Mormons, Jesus is the firstborn son of an exalted "man" who became the god of this world. The man-god of Mormonism was made the god of this world because of his good works on another planet somewhere out in the universe. He "earned" godhood, and was thus appointed by a counsel of gods in the heavens to his high position as the god of planet Earth. The Mormon god of this world was a man, like all men, who became a god. This is what the celestial marriage and the temple vows are all about. LDS men, by doing their temple work, are striving for exaltation by which they, too, shall one day become gods. Their wives will be the mother goddesses of "their" world and with their husband will produce the population of their world. This is the Mormon doctrine of "eternal progression."

Note the following quote from the Mormon Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, page 123, made by the LDS Apostle Orson Hyde:

"Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, a mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point were He is."

Lorenzo Snow, late President of the Mormon church, made this statement in the second verse of his famous poem entitled, "Man's Destiny":

"As Abra'm, Isaac, Jacob, too, babes, then men--to gods they grew. As man now is, our God once was; As now God is, so man may be,-- Which doth unfold man's destiny. . ."

The God of the Bible is not an exalted man. The God of the Bible is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. The Bible says He is the only God and there are no other Gods. He had no beginning or end and he is a spirit being and never was a man.

Note the clear teaching of the Bible as to who the real God is:

Numbers 23:19, "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"

Psalms 102:26-27, "They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end."

Isaiah 43:10-11, "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."

Isaiah 44:6, "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

Isaiah 44:8, "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any."

Isaiah 45:21-22, "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else."

Jeremiah 23:24, "Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD."

Malachi 3:6, "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."

John 1:16-18, "And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

John 4:24, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

Romans 1:22, "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things."

Colossians 1:15, "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"

1 Timothy 1:17, "Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen."

1 Timothy 6:16, "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

Clearly, Mormonism's god is not the God of Christianity who is the God revealed to us in the Bible. The Mormon god is a god formed from the imaginations of Joseph Smith, and in truth is a false, non-existent god or idol.

Second: The Jesus Christ of Mormonism is not the Jesus Christ of the Bible.

The Mormon Jesus is the son of this man-god. The Mormon Jesus is the brother of Lucifer, and according to LDS teaching, he married several of the Marys of the New Testament. He is not, to the LDS church, "God incarnate" as the Bible plainly states. Clearly, the Mormon god and Jesus are not the true.

God and Jesus of the Bible

Orson Hyde, the Mormon Apostle said, "We say it was Jesus Christ who was married in the marriage of Cana of Galilee" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, page 80).

Brigham Young, said, "When the Virgin Mary conceived the Child Jesus ... He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is His father? He is the first of the human family" (Journal of Discourses, pages 50-51).

Compare this with the Word of God, "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" (Luke 1:35).

Mormons teach that Jesus Christ suffered for sin in the Garden of Gethsemane when He sweat "as it were" great drops of blood. Mormons totally avoid the Biblical teaching of Christ's atonement for sin which was accomplished on the Cross.

Note the following quote from, "What Mormons Think of Christ" (LDS publication, pages 32-34):

"Christians speak often of the blood of Christ and its cleansing power. Much is believed and taught on this subject, however, it is utter nonsense and so palpably false that to believe it is to lose one's salvation."

It goes further to say that salvation is "conditional on faith, and repentance, and baptism and keeping the commands of God."

I would like to add, yes, it is very true that Christians do speak much of the blood of Christ. Note the emphasis the Bible places on the blood of Christ:

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1 John 1:7).

"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" (Hebrew 9:14).

"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood" (Revelations 1:5).

The ejection of this Biblical truth by the LDS church shows again it is not a Christian church.

Note that in the following verses the Bible says salvation, which is forgiveness of sin and receiving of eternal life, is a gift of God, and it is not obtained by "works":

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5).

I am aware that the L.D.S church has several definitions of salvation and several degrees of glory. A good discussion of the problem is found on the Internet at http:CastYourNet.com/LDS-Shock.

The real Jesus Christ is the "only begotten of the Father." He is not one of many sons and certainly not the brother of Satan as the following Scriptures clearly state:

John 1:18, "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Hebrews 1:5, "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"

1 John 4:9, "In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him."

Jesus Christ of the Bible is God Incarnate in Man

John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 1:14, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

John 10:30 "I and my Father are one." Jesus claimed to be one with the Father.

In John 14:9, Jesus said to see him is to see the Father.

In John 8:25, 56-59, 18:6,8 Jesus used the Jehovistic "I AM," identifying Himself as God.

In Matthew 22:42-45, Jesus claimed to be the Old Testament "Adonai."

In Mark 2:5-7, Jesus forgave sin, a prerogative belonging only to God.

In Matthew 14:33; 28:9; and John 20:28-29, Jesus asserted Himself as God by allowing men to worship Him.

John 1:3 states that Jesus is the Creator, and Genesis 1:1 states that God was the Creator.

Only those who believe in the real Biblical God and Jesus Christ have the right to use the name "Christian." The Mormon prophets historically have openly ridiculed those who believe in the God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit that the Bible reveals.

One question that I would ask all Mormons is this: "If I accept you as a Christian, will you accept me as a Mormon?" Would you accept me as a Mormon if I reject Joseph Smith and all the LDS prophets as being prophets of God. If I do not believe in the Book of Mormon or the LDS Scriptures, baptisms for the dead, the temple endowments, the LDS gospel, would you accept me as a Mormon? The answer is obviously, you would not. In like manner, when Mormonism denies the Bible and every Christian doctrine do you think that Biblical Christians should accept Mormons as Christians? Again the answer is very obvious, no we will not. You cannot legitimately claim to be Christians when you refuse to accept what the Bible teaches and what a true Christian believes.

I would implore Mormons to honestly and openly examine their teachings about God and Jesus Christ and examine who the Bible defines as being a Christian. There is no benefit in calling yourself a "Christian" when Biblically you are not.

Because we love the souls of men and want to see them, too, spend eternity in Heaven with our Savior, we strongly object to anyone proclaiming to the world a false Jesus Christ. We do not want to see anyone miss having their sins forgiven and receiving eternal life, because they were deceived.

Jesus said that He alone was the truth, the way and the life.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).

Belief in the real Jesus Christ is the only way a man can receive forgiveness of sin and eternal life. The LDS, church in presenting a false Christ is, in fact, leading souls away from salvation and the real Jesus. They reject God's truth and substitute another Jesus who does not exist and cannot save. Only those who believe in the Biblical Jesus Christ will go to heaven when they die. Those who put their trust in a false Christ will be eternally lost. Every true Child of God knows this, and that is why we try so hard to point men away from false churches, prophets, gods and Christs, that they may find God's true Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and be saved.

Let God speak for Himself by His Word.

Matt. 24:24, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 14:10-12).

Believe whatever you choose, but choose wisely.

Exhaustive to say the least. If I were a Mormon, I would run away from them as fast as my feet could travel. Everything you shared is right on. Muslims need to read this too! Thanks for sharing it.

[dianaiad]

.

Exhaustive to say the least. If I were a Mormon, I would run away from them as fast as my feet could travel. Everything you shared is right on. Muslims need to read this too! Thanks for sharing it.[/quote]

ExhausTING, rather....and almost entirely wrong. Not simply 'wrong opinion,' but factually incorrect.

but then, most such stuff is, no matter what the target faith happens to be.

[Burninglight]

.

Exhaustive to say the least. If I were a Mormon, I would run away from them as fast as my feet could travel. Everything you shared is right on. Muslims need to read this too! Thanks for sharing it.

ExhausTING, rather....and almost entirely wrong. Not simply 'wrong opinion,' but factually incorrect.

but then, most such stuff is, no matter what the target faith happens to be.[/quote]


What makes you so sure?

[dianaiad]

.

Exhaustive to say the least. If I were a Mormon, I would run away from them as fast as my feet could travel. Everything you shared is right on. Muslims need to read this too! Thanks for sharing it.

ExhausTING, rather....and almost entirely wrong. Not simply 'wrong opinion,' but factually incorrect.

but then, most such stuff is, no matter what the target faith happens to be.

What makes you so sure?

Two things:

First, I'm a Mormon and I know what my beliefs are. Really. I've been studying them (and our history) for over fifty years, and am very familiar with the stuff written by critics. For instance, the article posted above, to which I just replied? Plagiarized from a Baptist anti-Mormon pamphlet written by Cooper P. Abrams III. Pretty typical stuff, actually.
--though this one is more courteously written than most.

Second, those who use such tactics against Mormons will use them against anybody else they don't like. Some of the stuff written about Catholicism makes Ed Decker look like a Mormon missionary, and The Maze of Mormonism look like an LDS missionary pamphlet.



Ah, well.

[sleepyhead]

Hello dianaiad,

I no longer call myself a Christian so I no longer have a dog in the fight. I noticed in your user group list that you consider yourself Christian. How do you defrine Christian? Do you resent it when others don't consider you Christian?
With regards to the following comment from the church website:
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/style-guide

When referring to people or organizations that practice polygamy, the terms "Mormons," "Mormon fundamentalist," "Mormon dissidents," etc. are incorrect. The Associated Press Stylebook notes: "The term Mormon is not properly applied to the other ... churches that resulted from the split after [Joseph] Smith's death.

Do you agree with the churches position?

[dianaiad]

Hello dianaiad,

I no longer call myself a Christian so I no longer have a dog in the fight. I noticed in your user group list that you consider yourself Christian. How do you defrine Christian? Do you resent it when others don't consider you Christian?
With regards to the following comment from the church website:
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/style-guide

When referring to people or organizations that practice polygamy, the terms "Mormons," "Mormon fundamentalist," "Mormon dissidents," etc. are incorrect. The Associated Press Stylebook notes: "The term Mormon is not properly applied to the other ... churches that resulted from the split after [Joseph] Smith's death.

Do you agree with the churches position?

In terms of the style guide issued to reporters? Yeah...because Mormon fundamentalists are a pain in the butt, and when reporters use the term "Mormon," no matter what adjective accompanies it, the average reader WILL associate it with the SLC based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So reporters writing stories about the various Mormon off-shoots need to be more careful about who, precisely, they are writing about, and not commit the fallacy of composition that referring to ALL offshoots as if they were CoJCoLDS involves.

Believe me. I know this. (sigh)

However, as a general rule and for the sake of accuracy in names?

Anybody who believes in the Book of Mormon is a Mormon. They may not be LDS, but they are Mormon--because the Book of Mormon is the definer.

I personally don't see how I could deny (for instance) the FLDS the name 'Mormon" AND insist that no Christian can deny me the name "Christian."

Just be more specific when writing a news story.

(edit to define "Christian")

Look in the dictionary. Basically, for me, "Christian" is defined as anybody who believes in the teachings of Jesus Christ, and considers himself to be Christian. Their beliefs may not be entirely correct, but they are Christians.

Finally: if "Christian" is defined the way most people who want to deny the word to US is...that is, "He who believes the truth about Jesus Christ," then we are the Christians and they----aren't.

Given what a kerfuffle THAT would cause, I think I'll go with definition #1.

[Burninglight]

.

Exhaustive to say the least. If I were a Mormon, I would run away from them as fast as my feet could travel. Everything you shared is right on. Muslims need to read this too! Thanks for sharing it.

ExhausTING, rather....and almost entirely wrong. Not simply 'wrong opinion,' but factually incorrect.

but then, most such stuff is, no matter what the target faith happens to be.

What makes you so sure?

Two things:

First, I'm a Mormon and I know what my beliefs are. Really. I've been studying them (and our history) for over fifty years, and am very familiar with the stuff written by critics. For instance, the article posted above, to which I just replied? Plagiarized from a Baptist anti-Mormon pamphlet written by Cooper P. Abrams III. Pretty typical stuff, actually.
--though this one is more courteously written than most.

Second, those who use such tactics against Mormons will use them against anybody else they don't like. Some of the stuff written about Catholicism makes Ed Decker look like a Mormon missionary, and The Maze of Mormonism look like an LDS missionary pamphlet.



Ah, well.

Oh, i didn't know you were. Do you consider yourself a Christian? Did you convert or were you born into it? If you don't mind.