? A Question For All Former Christians Who Fell Away ?

[YahDough]

This is a question addressed only to former Christians who have left the faith.

Why did you become a Christian?
[/b]

[YahDough]

The Holy Ghost (Spirit) is the teacher of the truth. This is God's reasoning and logic. A person without the Holy Spirit will not understand.

Could you please demonstrate two different truths that pertain to one single thing? Also, please demonstrate what a 'god logic' is and what a 'god reasoning' is, without using the bible this time please, since in essence, that is the secondary truth, logic, and reasoning in question.

That's not what I said. There's only one "truth" regarding things of God. There are different logics. You may think fornication is OK between two consenting adults. The TRUTH is it is not OK. It is sin. That is the difference between two different logics. The logic of man, without the Holy Ghost is generally self justifying and self-serving.

The logic of God, as shown in Christ Jesus, is to love and be of service to others, and to do the will of the One who created us. This conflicts with the ego of the natural man who does not have the Holy Ghost to teach and comfort him.

If a former Christian doesn't understand this I would question whether they were ever a believer to begin with. Generally, the first step in affirming oneself as a believer in Christ Jesus should be to receive the Holy Ghost through repentance and baptism.

[McCulloch]

If a former Christian doesn't understand this I would question whether they were ever a believer to begin with. Generally, the first step in affirming oneself as a believer in Christ Jesus should be to receive the Holy Ghost through repentance and baptism.

This certainly sounds like the old no true Scotsman argument. If I disbelieve now, it must be because I did not genuinely believe before. When I came to believe the Gospel, I repented of my sins and was baptized. At that time, I believed that I received the gift of the Holy Spirit. Was I mistaken? I now believe that I was. What I thought was the Holy Spirit at the time, I now believe was simply wishful thinking.

Who are you to claim that my belief was not genuine? Are you so sure that your own belief is genuine? If a decade from now, you come to the conclusion that God is not real, will you yourself claim that your current beliefs were not genuine beliefs?

[YahDough]

If a former Christian doesn't understand this I would question whether they were ever a believer to begin with. Generally, the first step in affirming oneself as a believer in Christ Jesus should be to receive the Holy Ghost through repentance and baptism.

This certainly sounds like the old no true Scotsman argument. If I disbelieve now, it must be because I did not genuinely believe before. When I came to believe the Gospel, I repented of my sins and was baptized. At that time, I believed that I received the gift of the Holy Spirit. Was I mistaken? I now believe that I was. What I thought was the Holy Spirit at the time, I now believe was simply wishful thinking.

The devil, the world and we ourselves can take us away from Christ.

Who are you to claim that my belief was not genuine?

I don't think I have claimed anything regarding you McC. I just know of the importance of the Holy Ghost in teaching and comforting us as we strengthen our faith in Christ.

Are you so sure that your own belief is genuine?

Yes. I have confidence in Christ, not in myself. I believe in Jesus.

If a decade from now, you come to the conclusion that God is not real, will you yourself claim that your current beliefs were not genuine beliefs?

God forbid. If I ever came to a conclusion that God was not real it would be because He departed from me, not because He doesn't exist.
I know that's true because it already pretty much happened. I was a strong Christian who was overcome by past sins that I was supposed to have discarded at baptism. The Holy Ghost departed from me, so I could have claimed that God was not real. But I knew better. My previous experiences with God were valid so I was more than willing.....I was desperate to be a prodigal son when I came to my senses. It was the hardest experience I ever had in my life trying to regain the grace I had forsaken, and recover the blessings of a believer.

[zombiefive]

[Replying to post 63 by YahDough]

God forbid. If I ever came to a conclusion that God was not real it would be because He departed from me, not because He doesn't exist.
I know that's true because it already pretty much happened. I was a strong Christian who was overcome by past sins that I was supposed to have discarded at baptism. The Holy Ghost departed from me, so I could have claimed that God was not real. But I knew better. My previous experiences with God were valid so I was more than willing.....I was desperate to be a prodigal son when I came to my senses. It was the hardest experience I ever had in my life trying to regain the grace I had forsaken, and recover the blessings of a believer.

Why jump to the conclusion that something that was in you left and cause YOU to make bad decisions. Do you not take responsibility for your own actions? I would have to say that it was not some ghost that gave up on you, but the baptism itself was a failure. I don't understand why you can't see whats real and obvious but instead fill it with more complex explanations.

Just because a book says being dipped in water will absolve you of sin doesn't mean the next time you do those sins you should blame it on something the baptism was supposed to put in you. Do you think if the ghost stayed in you, you somehow would not have done the things you did?

[YahDough]

[Replying to post 63 by YahDough]

God forbid. If I ever came to a conclusion that God was not real it would be because He departed from me, not because He doesn't exist.
I know that's true because it already pretty much happened. I was a strong Christian who was overcome by past sins that I was supposed to have discarded at baptism. The Holy Ghost departed from me, so I could have claimed that God was not real. But I knew better. My previous experiences with God were valid so I was more than willing.....I was desperate to be a prodigal son when I came to my senses. It was the hardest experience I ever had in my life trying to regain the grace I had forsaken, and recover the blessings of a believer.

Why jump to the conclusion that something that was in you left and cause YOU to make bad decisions. Do you not take responsibility for your own actions? I would have to say that it was not some ghost that gave up on you, but the baptism itself was a failure. I don't understand why you can't see whats real and obvious but instead fill it with more complex explanations.

Just because a book says being dipped in water will absolve you of sin doesn't mean the next time you do those sins you should blame it on something the baptism was supposed to put in you. Do you think if the ghost stayed in you, you somehow would not have done the things you did?

Your whole post shows you don't seem to have a clue about the dynamics of the baptism of repentance and having a new, changed life in Christ. Christ Jesus doesn't save us so we can go on sinning. God forbid.

Do you suppose your failed conversion was probably because you just "accepted" Christ? No repentance? No Holy Ghost (Spirit) living within you?

[zombiefive]

[Replying to post 63 by YahDough]

God forbid. If I ever came to a conclusion that God was not real it would be because He departed from me, not because He doesn't exist.
I know that's true because it already pretty much happened. I was a strong Christian who was overcome by past sins that I was supposed to have discarded at baptism. The Holy Ghost departed from me, so I could have claimed that God was not real. But I knew better. My previous experiences with God were valid so I was more than willing.....I was desperate to be a prodigal son when I came to my senses. It was the hardest experience I ever had in my life trying to regain the grace I had forsaken, and recover the blessings of a believer.

Why jump to the conclusion that something that was in you left and cause YOU to make bad decisions. Do you not take responsibility for your own actions? I would have to say that it was not some ghost that gave up on you, but the baptism itself was a failure. I don't understand why you can't see whats real and obvious but instead fill it with more complex explanations.

Just because a book says being dipped in water will absolve you of sin doesn't mean the next time you do those sins you should blame it on something the baptism was supposed to put in you. Do you think if the ghost stayed in you, you somehow would not have done the things you did?

Your whole post shows you don't seem to have a clue about the dynamics of the baptism of repentance and having a new, changed life in Christ. Christ Jesus doesn't save us so we can go on sinning. God forbid.

Do you suppose your failed conversion was probably because you just "accepted" Christ? No repentance? No Holy Ghost (Spirit) living within you?

Excuse me? Where the hell do you get off thinking that you can just tell anybody what they believe and how they did it? You have absolutely no idea who I am and what I did when I was younger. How have moderators not dealt with your non-sense yet?

I'll say it one last time..

I WAS a christian. I DID believe in the holy ghost/god/jesus and that I WAS saved by accepting jesus into my heart. Only after I became more skeptical of everything in our world, including my own beliefs, did I become an atheist. I care about things that are true...and in examining my beliefs, I found those things very untrue. Understand?

[YahDough]

[Replying to post 63 by YahDough]

God forbid. If I ever came to a conclusion that God was not real it would be because He departed from me, not because He doesn't exist.
I know that's true because it already pretty much happened. I was a strong Christian who was overcome by past sins that I was supposed to have discarded at baptism. The Holy Ghost departed from me, so I could have claimed that God was not real. But I knew better. My previous experiences with God were valid so I was more than willing.....I was desperate to be a prodigal son when I came to my senses. It was the hardest experience I ever had in my life trying to regain the grace I had forsaken, and recover the blessings of a believer.

Why jump to the conclusion that something that was in you left and cause YOU to make bad decisions. Do you not take responsibility for your own actions? I would have to say that it was not some ghost that gave up on you, but the baptism itself was a failure. I don't understand why you can't see whats real and obvious but instead fill it with more complex explanations.

Just because a book says being dipped in water will absolve you of sin doesn't mean the next time you do those sins you should blame it on something the baptism was supposed to put in you. Do you think if the ghost stayed in you, you somehow would not have done the things you did?

Your whole post shows you don't seem to have a clue about the dynamics of the baptism of repentance and having a new, changed life in Christ. Christ Jesus doesn't save us so we can go on sinning. God forbid.

Do you suppose your failed conversion was probably because you just "accepted" Christ? No repentance? No Holy Ghost (Spirit) living within you?

Excuse me? Where the hell do you get off thinking that you can just tell anybody what they believe and how they did it? You have absolutely no idea who I am and what I did when I was younger. How have moderators not dealt with your non-sense yet?

I'll say it one last time..

I WAS a christian. I DID believe in the holy ghost/god/jesus and that I WAS saved by accepting jesus into my heart. Only after I became more skeptical of everything in our world, including my own beliefs, did I become an atheist. I care about things that are true...and in examining my beliefs, I found those things very untrue. Understand?

What things about Christ did you find untrue?

[zombiefive]

[Replying to post 63 by YahDough]

God forbid. If I ever came to a conclusion that God was not real it would be because He departed from me, not because He doesn't exist.
I know that's true because it already pretty much happened. I was a strong Christian who was overcome by past sins that I was supposed to have discarded at baptism. The Holy Ghost departed from me, so I could have claimed that God was not real. But I knew better. My previous experiences with God were valid so I was more than willing.....I was desperate to be a prodigal son when I came to my senses. It was the hardest experience I ever had in my life trying to regain the grace I had forsaken, and recover the blessings of a believer.

Why jump to the conclusion that something that was in you left and cause YOU to make bad decisions. Do you not take responsibility for your own actions? I would have to say that it was not some ghost that gave up on you, but the baptism itself was a failure. I don't understand why you can't see whats real and obvious but instead fill it with more complex explanations.

Just because a book says being dipped in water will absolve you of sin doesn't mean the next time you do those sins you should blame it on something the baptism was supposed to put in you. Do you think if the ghost stayed in you, you somehow would not have done the things you did?

Your whole post shows you don't seem to have a clue about the dynamics of the baptism of repentance and having a new, changed life in Christ. Christ Jesus doesn't save us so we can go on sinning. God forbid.

Do you suppose your failed conversion was probably because you just "accepted" Christ? No repentance? No Holy Ghost (Spirit) living within you?

Excuse me? Where the hell do you get off thinking that you can just tell anybody what they believe and how they did it? You have absolutely no idea who I am and what I did when I was younger. How have moderators not dealt with your non-sense yet?

I'll say it one last time..

I WAS a christian. I DID believe in the holy ghost/god/jesus and that I WAS saved by accepting jesus into my heart. Only after I became more skeptical of everything in our world, including my own beliefs, did I become an atheist. I care about things that are true...and in examining my beliefs, I found those things very untrue. Understand?

What things about Christ did you find untrue?

Well its not just things about jesus that are untrue but if you want be get specific, anything claimed about him that humans can't do...examples would be miracles, resurrecting, flying, walking on water, being the path to some kind of heaven....pretty much everything the christian religion claims to be true. Through skepticism I found these claims to have never been proven true, or possible for that matter, and that I had no good reason to believe them, and since I also care about believing as many true things as possible, and not believing as many untrue things, I could not justify my silly believes and thankfully shed them.

[YahDough]

[Replying to post 63 by YahDough]

God forbid. If I ever came to a conclusion that God was not real it would be because He departed from me, not because He doesn't exist.
I know that's true because it already pretty much happened. I was a strong Christian who was overcome by past sins that I was supposed to have discarded at baptism. The Holy Ghost departed from me, so I could have claimed that God was not real. But I knew better. My previous experiences with God were valid so I was more than willing.....I was desperate to be a prodigal son when I came to my senses. It was the hardest experience I ever had in my life trying to regain the grace I had forsaken, and recover the blessings of a believer.

Why jump to the conclusion that something that was in you left and cause YOU to make bad decisions. Do you not take responsibility for your own actions? I would have to say that it was not some ghost that gave up on you, but the baptism itself was a failure. I don't understand why you can't see whats real and obvious but instead fill it with more complex explanations.

Just because a book says being dipped in water will absolve you of sin doesn't mean the next time you do those sins you should blame it on something the baptism was supposed to put in you. Do you think if the ghost stayed in you, you somehow would not have done the things you did?

Your whole post shows you don't seem to have a clue about the dynamics of the baptism of repentance and having a new, changed life in Christ. Christ Jesus doesn't save us so we can go on sinning. God forbid.

Do you suppose your failed conversion was probably because you just "accepted" Christ? No repentance? No Holy Ghost (Spirit) living within you?

Excuse me? Where the hell do you get off thinking that you can just tell anybody what they believe and how they did it? You have absolutely no idea who I am and what I did when I was younger. How have moderators not dealt with your non-sense yet?

I'll say it one last time..

I WAS a christian. I DID believe in the holy ghost/god/jesus and that I WAS saved by accepting jesus into my heart. Only after I became more skeptical of everything in our world, including my own beliefs, did I become an atheist. I care about things that are true...and in examining my beliefs, I found those things very untrue. Understand?

What things about Christ did you find untrue?

Well its not just things about jesus that are untrue but if you want be get specific, anything claimed about him that humans can't do...examples would be miracles, resurrecting, flying, walking on water, being the path to some kind of heaven....pretty much everything the christian religion claims to be true. Through skepticism I found these claims to have never been proven true, or possible for that matter, and that I had no good reason to believe them, and since I also care about believing as many true things as possible, and not believing as many untrue things, I could not justify my silly believes and thankfully shed them.

Why did you believe those things about Jesus to begin with? Didn't you know about them before you became a believer? How old were you when you "accepted" Christ?

[zombiefive]

[Replying to post 63 by YahDough]

God forbid. If I ever came to a conclusion that God was not real it would be because He departed from me, not because He doesn't exist.
I know that's true because it already pretty much happened. I was a strong Christian who was overcome by past sins that I was supposed to have discarded at baptism. The Holy Ghost departed from me, so I could have claimed that God was not real. But I knew better. My previous experiences with God were valid so I was more than willing.....I was desperate to be a prodigal son when I came to my senses. It was the hardest experience I ever had in my life trying to regain the grace I had forsaken, and recover the blessings of a believer.

Why jump to the conclusion that something that was in you left and cause YOU to make bad decisions. Do you not take responsibility for your own actions? I would have to say that it was not some ghost that gave up on you, but the baptism itself was a failure. I don't understand why you can't see whats real and obvious but instead fill it with more complex explanations.

Just because a book says being dipped in water will absolve you of sin doesn't mean the next time you do those sins you should blame it on something the baptism was supposed to put in you. Do you think if the ghost stayed in you, you somehow would not have done the things you did?

Your whole post shows you don't seem to have a clue about the dynamics of the baptism of repentance and having a new, changed life in Christ. Christ Jesus doesn't save us so we can go on sinning. God forbid.

Do you suppose your failed conversion was probably because you just "accepted" Christ? No repentance? No Holy Ghost (Spirit) living within you?

Excuse me? Where the hell do you get off thinking that you can just tell anybody what they believe and how they did it? You have absolutely no idea who I am and what I did when I was younger. How have moderators not dealt with your non-sense yet?

I'll say it one last time..

I WAS a christian. I DID believe in the holy ghost/god/jesus and that I WAS saved by accepting jesus into my heart. Only after I became more skeptical of everything in our world, including my own beliefs, did I become an atheist. I care about things that are true...and in examining my beliefs, I found those things very untrue. Understand?

What things about Christ did you find untrue?

Well its not just things about jesus that are untrue but if you want be get specific, anything claimed about him that humans can't do...examples would be miracles, resurrecting, flying, walking on water, being the path to some kind of heaven....pretty much everything the christian religion claims to be true. Through skepticism I found these claims to have never been proven true, or possible for that matter, and that I had no good reason to believe them, and since I also care about believing as many true things as possible, and not believing as many untrue things, I could not justify my silly believes and thankfully shed them.

Why did you believe those things about Jesus to begin with? Didn't you know about them before you became a believer? How old were you when you "accepted" Christ?

How could one know something before they first believe it? Knowledge is a subset of believe, therefore you must believe something first before you can know it to be true. Unless you mean to ask if I KNEW OF the stories before I believed them, then yes...how else would I believe things about jesus if I had not first heard of things he did? Do you imply that people are born with such knowledge?

As far as why I believed goes, it was only due to that fact that I already believed that god etc. existed and therefore the stories surrounding him and in the bible must have been true also.