Christians - Why did Jesus not liberate Israel/slaves?

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ThePeopleAreMyGod
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Christians - Why did Jesus not liberate Israel/slaves?

Post #1

Post by ThePeopleAreMyGod »

Admittedly, I'm a Marxist-Leninist and coming from such a perspective.

However, in the Bible's own narrative, it would seem to suggest that Jesus, being Divine was an omnipotent, omniscient being.

We know that in the historical context he was said to live in, his own people had been colonized by the Roman Empire, and slavery existed as an institution. We know also that there had been a number of rebellions both on the behalf of Jewish independence and slave revolts roughly contemporaneously to the time and place Jesus was said to live in.

Yet as far as the Bible's own narrative goes, Jesus - despite having the power to do so - did absolutely nothing to help either of these arguably quite just causes. Despite the Messiah's primary role being that of liberating the Jewish people from foreign subjugation and restoring a state for them, Jesus did no such thing.

Unlike Moses, he did not stand up to the oppressors. He did not set his people free, though he so easily could have. Instead he meekly carried the cross of his oppressors and allowed his people to remain in bondage. Why?

I understand from a theological perspective the necessity of Christ's death, but why could it not have been the heroic one of the leader of a rebellion to free his people and all oppressed people from Roman tyranny? The sort of death - and resurrection - that would inspire many to follow him, believe in him (isn't that the whole point, after all) and truly make a better, free world?

It just seems to me that from the Bible's own narrative, Jesus really dropped the ball on the whole Messiah thing. Am I missing anything here?

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tam
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Post #2

Post by tam »

There was also the tyranny and hypocrisy of the priests and religious leaders, and the burdens that they loaded up on the people they were supposed to be serving.

Christ set people free from THAT, and from THEM, (if they wished to be set free; not all do... in fact, some would just take up another yoke - another religion, and go into captivity all over again)

There have always been various political authorities. The Romans were hardly the first political power in the world, and they would certainly not be the last. That is what men do, at least for now.


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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ThePeopleAreMyGod
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Post #3

Post by ThePeopleAreMyGod »

tam wrote: There was also the tyranny and hypocrisy of the priests and religious leaders, and the burdens that they loaded up on the people they were supposed to be serving.

Christ set people free from THAT, and from THEM, (if they wished to be set free; not all do... in fact, some would just take up another yoke - another religion, and go into captivity all over again)

There have always been various political authorities. The Romans were hardly the first political power in the world, and they would certainly not be the last. That is what men do, at least for now.


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Did he though? It would seem, from the Bible's narrative, that the religious leaders who collaborated with Roman authority were themselves complicit in Christ being tried and executed. He did nothing to remove them from any position of power; they defeated him, not the other way around - though he easily could have done otherwise.

While he had made a show of resisting the moneychangers in the Temple (which of course I approve of on principal), nothing really materialized of this. Presumably order was later restored one way or another later on and they returned to exploit the common people again.

What did destroy said religious institutions was the sacking of the Second Temple by the invading Romans after a failed Jewish Rebellion. But that occurred significantly after Christ is said to have walked the earth, and Christians - who at this time considered themselves a distinct group from Jews even went to some lengths, at least by the time of the Bar Kokhba Revolt, to distinguish themselves from Jews and their struggles.

Whatever oppression the Jewish religious leaders contemporaneous to Jesus may have done in collaborating with Rome, in a bit over a generation later, they were for the most part providing material and spiritual aid to the revolutionary movement against Roman oppression.

What did Jesus actually do to liberate the oppressed except a lot of nice-sounding words and a symbolic display of force, once, against a few people in the temple? Bar Kokhba failed, but he was merely a mortal man, and at least he tried to set his people free.

I'd agree that throughout human history thus far political institutions tend to materialize as ones of oppression for the benefit of a small elite ruling class. But it's only through actively struggling against them, I feel, that any progress can be made in history. And Jesus didn't seem to offer much more than pretty words.

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Re: Christians - Why did Jesus not liberate Israel/slaves?

Post #4

Post by puddleglum »

[Replying to post 1 by ThePeopleAreMyGod]
Am I missing anything here?
Yes. You are missing the fact that this life is only a small part of our eternal existence. Any good we experience in this life is only temporary. Jesus said, "What does it benefit a person to gain the whole world and lose his own soul."

When we die we will stand before a holy God to be judged. God will judge all sin and all of us have sinned. Jesus died to atone for our sins and his resurrection proves that God accepted his sacrifice. Each of us must receive this forgiveness by repenting of sin and putting his faith in Jesus or pay the penalty for our own sin by being condemned to eternal punishment.

There is one thing that puzzles me. You are a member of the Former Evangelical group. If you were once an evangelical it seems to me you should know all of this even if you don't believe it.
His invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.
Romans 1:20 ESV

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Post #5

Post by tam »

ThePeopleAreMyGod wrote:
tam wrote: There was also the tyranny and hypocrisy of the priests and religious leaders, and the burdens that they loaded up on the people they were supposed to be serving.

Christ set people free from THAT, and from THEM, (if they wished to be set free; not all do... in fact, some would just take up another yoke - another religion, and go into captivity all over again)

There have always been various political authorities. The Romans were hardly the first political power in the world, and they would certainly not be the last. That is what men do, at least for now.


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Did he though? It would seem, from the Bible's narrative, that the religious leaders who collaborated with Roman authority were themselves complicit in Christ being tried and executed.
Yes.
He did nothing to remove them from any position of power; they defeated him, not the other way around - though he easily could have done otherwise.
He did not come here concerned with secular/political power. He came for those who are seeking God and Truth, beginning with the Jews, then the rest of Israel (that was around, such as the Samaritans), then the Gentiles.

They did not defeat Him though. He came to bear witness to God, to speak and teach truth, to bring light, and to give His life. He did everything that He came to do.

While he had made a show of resisting the moneychangers in the Temple (which of course I approve of on principal), nothing really materialized of this. Presumably order was later restored one way or another later on and they returned to exploit the common people again.
He did not 'resist' the moneychangers. He renounced their deeds, then taught truth. What people do with any of that is their choice, but if they did not change their ways after that, they certainly cannot say that they were not forewarned.


What did destroy said religious institutions was the sacking of the Second Temple by the invading Romans after a failed Jewish Rebellion.
That destroyed the temple and some things done there. It did not destroy the religion.

But God removed His spirit from the Temple of stone, and placed it into Christ and the Body of Christ (those who belong to Him, His Church, His Bride).

Spiritual matters over secular/political/earthly matters.
But that occurred significantly after Christ is said to have walked the earth, and Christians - who at this time considered themselves a distinct group from Jews even went to some lengths, at least by the time of the Bar Kokhba Revolt, to distinguish themselves from Jews and their struggles.
Yes, but God had removed His spirit from the Temple even before then.
Whatever oppression the Jewish religious leaders contemporaneous to Jesus may have done in collaborating with Rome, in a bit over a generation later, they were for the most part providing material and spiritual aid to the revolutionary movement against Roman oppression.
And?

What did that do? We don't have as many wars going on, or oppression taking place in the world?
What did Jesus actually do to liberate the oppressed except a lot of nice-sounding words and a symbolic display of force, once, against a few people in the temple? Bar Kokhba failed, but he was merely a mortal man, and at least he tried to set his people free.
His purpose here had nothing to do with that. Not this time around. He did not come to lead a physical actual battle type rebellion.
I'd agree that throughout human history thus far political institutions tend to materialize as ones of oppression for the benefit of a small elite ruling class. But it's only through actively struggling against them, I feel, that any progress can be made in history. And Jesus didn't seem to offer much more than pretty words.
[/quote]

Not a proponent of the pen being mightier than the sword?

It is the hearts of man that must change. The 'inside' of the cup. Otherwise it is simply a matter of 'meet the new boss; same as the old boss'.

Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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