Christian marriage is man and woman/husband and wife.

[99percentatheism]

There is no secular or theological challenge to be made that a "Christian marriage" isn't immutably a man and woman/husband and wife. Therefore, it should be a criminal act under current hate crimes laws, to accuse a Christian of hate, bigotry, or irrational . . ., if they assert the immutability of the structure of marriage as man and woman/husband and wife.

As Jesus proclaimed it in the Gospels and the writings reaffirm and define it so.

Why would anyone, religious or secularist, NOT support and affirm Christians adhering to the consistent and immutable Biblical teaching that a marriage is a man/husband and woman/wife?

[99percentatheism]

KCKID

I asked 4 SPECIFIC questions of 99percentatheism. I asked him to answer the questions in his own words without the usual dramatics, the unnecessary padding and without the use of ambiguous scriptures that have little or nothing to do with the topic. You will notice, dear reader, that he was unable to do so. Since I'm a fair person I'll give him another chance.

1. What precisely is it that gay people are doing in the Church that is causing such a threat to your Church . . .?
2. What does what you imagine a homosexual couple might be doing in their bedroom have to do with their effectiveness as a Christian?
3. What does what you imagine a heterosexual couple doing in their bedroom make them more effective Christians than the gay couple?
4. Should not what gay or straight couples might be doing in their bedrooms be off-limits to the Church?

Other than derailing this thread, which is a classic ploy of the side that is losing, I'd like to all of the anti-Semitic rhetoric to cease in a thread I invented.

You personally have a problem with gay marrieds in the Church. I want to know - in plain English - WHY ...? Can you give me a direct answer as to the 'why'?

This is not about "me." It is about Christian marriage. LGBT culture on same gender marriage is antithetical to Christrian truth. It is an otherworldly belief system. This thread should have been over with everyine just agreeing what Biblical truth that Christian marriage is man and woman/husband and wife. That is the only honest answer. It is the only answer no matter.

Here's what THIS thread is about. Either answer the OP or admit defeat. And of course, for your own satisfaction, start your own thread;

Lest we forget, here is the OP for this thread:

There is no secular or theological challenge to be made that a "Christian marriage" isn't immutably a man and woman/husband and wife. Therefore, it should be a criminal act under current hate crimes laws, to accuse a Christian of hate, bigotry, or irrational . . ., if they assert the immutability of the structure of marriage as man and woman/husband and wife.

Yes, I've read the OP several times and HAVE acknowledged that biblical marriage is none other than male/female or male/many females that become the property of the male. They are chattels and not equals. A man's home is his first priority. The female was allegedly formed from a rib of Adam because 'a helper' for Adam (that's the biblical role for a wife) could not be found among the animals. Who knows ...if a giraffe could have been found to fulfill the role it could well have become male/giraffe.

As creepy as your bestiality theology is, Christian marriage is man and woman/husband and wife. And if a Christian man wants to be in leadership in The Church, he has to be married to only one woman.

That said, since the OP has nothing to do with anything other than your own personal dislike for gay people in general and gay married people that *gulp* choose to belong to a Church I have therefore extended the argument.

There are all sorts of places called a Church. LGBT's can invent their own religion and have at their gay lifestyle there all they want to. But Christian marriage is man and woman.

You present the OP as if directed by God to do so. Nonsense. This is all about you, 99percent, and your own bigotry and piety toward those that differ from YOUR particular mindset on this issue. You talk about a losing side regarding this issue ...well, you are on it, my friend and I can feel your frustration.

I couldn't care less how much gay political propaganda you attempt to paint with here. The reality of Christian truth is that Christian marriage is man and woman. You can violate the rules here at this site with apparent support all day long . . . but LGBT culture is antithetical to Christian truth. I didn't write the New Testament, I just agree with what is written. You on th eother hand have invented a new religion and demand it to replace the proper canon.

As Jesus proclaimed it in the Gospels and the writings reaffirm and define it so.

Jesus proclaimed and affirmed that divorce is against the will of God and implied NOTHING about people CHOOSING to marry whoever they wish. Using that particular scripture with which to condemn gay marriage is, if anything, an affront to God.

LGBT two wrongs don't make a right. You are proving how bad gay theology is. Not me.

Why would anyone, religious or secularist, NOT support and affirm Christians adhering to the consistent and immutable Biblical teaching that a marriage is a man/husband and woman/wife?

Because they have a mind of their own ...?

Actually, it is intolerance. LGBT are perfectly free to invent their own religion. Even in Australia.

And of course the only answer to which is a centuries upon centuries consistent and resounding: YES Christian marriage is man and woman/husband and wife.

For there is no other definition.

Clearly there is.

In heresy, paganism and intolerance for what is Christian truth.

Let's move away from anti-Semtic rhetoric and worthless accusations and the common spin of political correctness . . . and RE-focus on the truth of what a Christian marriage is.

Hopefully no one has a problem with truth.

The truth is what I'm after. You have so far failed to answer with the truth 4 reasonable questions that I've asked of you.

[/quote]

Invent a new thread to ply your new religion and post whatever premise you desire. In this thread it is about a Christian marriage. That of course is immutably man and woman/husband and wife. There is no other kind in reality.

[Clownboat]

There are all sorts of places called a Church. LGBT's can invent their own religion and have at their gay lifestyle there all they want to. But Christian marriage is man and woman.

When I was attending church, it was about loving and worshiping god. What does your lifestyle have to so with your actions at church? If you were at church to have sex, I can see where you are coming from, but to me, going to church was never about sex.

What aspect of your lifestyle do you bring to church, why is it relevant and what does it have to do with loving and worshiping god?

I ask this because of your statement:
LGBT's can invent their own religion and have at their gay lifestyle there all they want to.

Have at their gay lifestyle at church all they want?
If you are going to church to flaunt a lifestyle, I submit you are doing it wrong.

[KCKID]

KCKID

I asked 4 SPECIFIC questions of 99percentatheism. I asked him to answer the questions in his own words without the usual dramatics, the unnecessary padding and without the use of ambiguous scriptures that have little or nothing to do with the topic. You will notice, dear reader, that he was unable to do so. Since I'm a fair person I'll give him another chance.

1. What precisely is it that gay people are doing in the Church that is causing such a threat to your Church . . .?
2. What does what you imagine a homosexual couple might be doing in their bedroom have to do with their effectiveness as a Christian?
3. What does what you imagine a heterosexual couple doing in their bedroom make them more effective Christians than the gay couple?
4. Should not what gay or straight couples might be doing in their bedrooms be off-limits to the Church?

Other than derailing this thread, which is a classic ploy of the side that is losing, I'd like to all of the anti-Semitic rhetoric to cease in a thread I invented.

You personally have a problem with gay marrieds in the Church. I want to know - in plain English - WHY ...? Can you give me a direct answer as to the 'why'?

This is not about "me." It is about Christian marriage. LGBT culture on same gender marriage is antithetical to Christrian truth. It is an otherworldly belief system. This thread should have been over with everyine just agreeing what Biblical truth that Christian marriage is man and woman/husband and wife. That is the only honest answer. It is the only answer no matter.

It's about YOUR obsession on a subject that YOU and NOT the Bible is giving far too much 'air play' than is warranted. The Bible says NOTHING about 'Christian marriage'. The Bible tells us that women were little more than chattels of the male and that 'marriage' simply made this official, i.e. 'this man now owns a woman'. 'Christian marriage' is either your own invention or one that you've stolen from those that are as obsessed by this topic as you are.

Here's what THIS thread is about. Either answer the OP or admit defeat. And of course, for your own satisfaction, start your own thread;

Lest we forget, here is the OP for this thread:

There is no secular or theological challenge to be made that a "Christian marriage" isn't immutably a man and woman/husband and wife. Therefore, it should be a criminal act under current hate crimes laws, to accuse a Christian of hate, bigotry, or irrational . . ., if they assert the immutability of the structure of marriage as man and woman/husband and wife.

Yes, I've read the OP several times and HAVE acknowledged that biblical marriage is none other than male/female or male/many females that become the property of the male. They are chattels and not equals. A man's home is his first priority. The female was allegedly formed from a rib of Adam because 'a helper' for Adam (that's the biblical role for a wife) could not be found among the animals. Who knows ...if a giraffe could have been found to fulfill the role it could well have become male/giraffe.

As creepy as your bestiality theology is,

It was God, not I, that searched for a 'helper' for Adam from among the animals. Doesn't that seem creepy? No, of course not because God can apparently do whatever He likes (such as search for a 'helper' for Adam among the animals) and be admired for it.

Christian marriage is man and woman/husband and wife. And if a Christian man wants to be in leadership in The Church, he has to be married to only one woman.

Where did Jesus command this?

That said, since the OP has nothing to do with anything other than your own personal dislike for gay people in general and gay married people that *gulp* choose to belong to a Church I have therefore extended the argument.

There are all sorts of places called a Church. LGBT's can invent their own religion and have at their gay lifestyle there all they want to. But Christian marriage is man and woman.

Yes, so you keep saying. Many Christians disagree, however.

You present the OP as if directed by God to do so. Nonsense. This is all about you, 99percent, and your own bigotry and piety toward those that differ from YOUR particular mindset on this issue. You talk about a losing side regarding this issue ...well, you are on it, my friend and I can feel your frustration.

I couldn't care less how much gay political propaganda you attempt to paint with here. The reality of Christian truth is that Christian marriage is man and woman. You can violate the rules here at this site with apparent support all day long . . . but LGBT culture is antithetical to Christian truth. I didn't write the New Testament, I just agree with what is written. You on th eother hand have invented a new religion and demand it to replace the proper canon.

What 'gay political propaganda' have I presented here? None that I know of. I don't require propaganda to field off any personal - yep, PERSONAL - beliefs that you might have about this topic. Christianity is all about Jesus and Jesus never said ANYTHING for or against homosexuality or gay marriage. It's infuriating that He didn't, isn't it?

As Jesus proclaimed it in the Gospels and the writings reaffirm and define it so.

Jesus proclaimed and affirmed that divorce is against the will of God and implied NOTHING about people CHOOSING to marry whoever they wish. Using that particular scripture with which to condemn gay marriage is, if anything, an affront to God.

LGBT two wrongs don't make a right. You are proving how bad gay theology is. Not me.

That has nothing to do with what Jesus allegedly said.

Why would anyone, religious or secularist, NOT support and affirm Christians adhering to the consistent and immutable Biblical teaching that a marriage is a man/husband and woman/wife?

Because they have a mind of their own ...?

Actually, it is intolerance. LGBT are perfectly free to invent their own religion. Even in Australia.

They don't need to. There are enough 'gay welcoming' Churches as it is.

And of course the only answer to which is a centuries upon centuries consistent and resounding: YES Christian marriage is man and woman/husband and wife.

For there is no other definition.

That's right. Women were considered to be - still are in many circles - the weaker sex. They could be obtained through the spoils of war, plunder and pillage ...and rape, of course. Under similar circumstances men would be considered 'slaves' whereas women were considered 'wives'. Is this the 'Christian marriage' that you would advocate for the Church?

Clearly there is.

In heresy, paganism and intolerance for what is Christian truth.

I don't know that you are catching on to the (Christian) truth according to scripture even though I persistently bring it up. Marriage back in the days of yore was certainly not nearly as cracked up to be as you would have it. Even your buddy, Paul, had to tell his congregants to love their wives. Why the need to tell them if they were already doing so?

'Christian marriage' today is far removed from man/woman marriage in biblical times. Women (Christian or otherwise) today are (theoretically) considered to be the man's equal. Strike one. Women (Christian or otherwise) today even have (gasp) positions of authority in the workforce AS WELL AS IN CHURCH! Strike two. Many Christian women today work and leave their children in the care of others while they pull in a wage to make ends meet, i.e. big screen TV, mortgage payments, car, boat, etc. The superior hubby can't handle the payments of all the luxuries on his own. Strike three. Many women today actually open their mouths in Church while in the presence of their superior husbands, something that was expressively forbidden by Paul. Strike Four. I could go on and on to demonstrate that 'Christian marriage' today is NOTHING like intended by (God) the Bible. Why, then, do you have such a bee in your bonnet about gay marriage being anti-scriptural? Do you ever feel a tad, um, foolish ...?

Let's move away from anti-Semtic rhetoric and worthless accusations and the common spin of political correctness . . . and RE-focus on the truth of what a Christian marriage is.

Hopefully no one has a problem with truth.

The truth is what I'm after. You have so far failed to answer with the truth 4 reasonable questions that I've asked of you.

Invent a new thread to ply your new religion and post whatever premise you desire. In this thread it is about a Christian marriage. That of course is immutably man and woman/husband and wife. There is no other kind in reality.

'Marriage' or one's marital status does not describe or define a Christian. Nor does one's ability to read and quote from a book. Perhaps you might think about that because, clearly, you haven't given it too much thought thus far.

[KCKID]

There are all sorts of places called a Church. LGBT's can invent their own religion and have at their gay lifestyle there all they want to. But Christian marriage is man and woman.

When I was attending church, it was about loving and worshiping god. What does your lifestyle have to so with your actions at church? If you were at church to have sex, I can see where you are coming from, but to me, going to church was never about sex.

What aspect of your lifestyle do you bring to church, why is it relevant and what does it have to do with loving and worshiping god?

I ask this because of your statement:
LGBT's can invent their own religion and have at their gay lifestyle there all they want to.

Have at their gay lifestyle at church all they want?
If you are going to church to flaunt a lifestyle, I submit you are doing it wrong.

I've been waiting - and am still waiting - for 99percentatheism to respond to this post before I add comment.

[99percentatheism]

It should not be forgotten that 'scriptural adultery' also includes those that divorce and marry another. While the former spouse of one or the other or both is still living, marrying another and thereby having an intimate relationship with them is tantamount to infidelity (biblically speaking) since marriage is supposed to be forever. While divorce IS permitted under certain circumstances (i.e. infidelity) remarrying is not permitted since the result would be adultery (and a sin toward the former living spouse) which is condemned.

Obviously, few Christians give too much attention to this Bible fact and one cannot blame them. Nor do I care who marries who. It's a nothing issue unless to the parties involved. However, when dealing with homosexuality and gay marriage (i.e. a committed monogamous partnership/relationship between two people of the same gender) Christians and the Church can't condemn these people fast enough. Some pretty much froth at the mouth in their hostility toward gay folk. AND, it's THIS double standard and hypocrisy and inconsistency of the Christian Church that irks me personally perhaps more than anything else ...

Why should we Christians care what irks you?

Abominations and heresy IS a big deal to us. You can peddle your version of a lifestyle and religion in some new and otherworldly belief system all you'd like. No one is stopping you.

Why do you demand that we have to submit to your authority?

Again, why do we have to care that you don't like Christian truth? Why the need to force your views on us? You pretend that there is some kind of rationale for gay sex to be promoted in the Bible and even in the Gospels directly, but this is patently false. Actually the very silence you us as a judge to promoye gay behavior makes a mockery of your theology. You do though seem very hostile to us. Why? This seems an age old reaction to belivers (Christians in this case) that reject the world and its ways:

The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,� he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.�

“No,� they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.�

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.�

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.�

9 “Get out of our way,� they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.� They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

10 But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. 11 Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door.

12 The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, 13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the Lord against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it.�

[99percentatheism]

KCKID

KCKID

I asked 4 SPECIFIC questions of 99percentatheism. I asked him to answer the questions in his own words without the usual dramatics, the unnecessary padding and without the use of ambiguous scriptures that have little or nothing to do with the topic. You will notice, dear reader, that he was unable to do so. Since I'm a fair person I'll give him another chance.

1. What precisely is it that gay people are doing in the Church that is causing such a threat to your Church . . .?
2. What does what you imagine a homosexual couple might be doing in their bedroom have to do with their effectiveness as a Christian?
3. What does what you imagine a heterosexual couple doing in their bedroom make them more effective Christians than the gay couple?
4. Should not what gay or straight couples might be doing in their bedrooms be off-limits to the Church?

Other than derailing this thread, which is a classic ploy of the side that is losing, I'd like to all of the anti-Semitic rhetoric to cease in a thread I invented.

You personally have a problem with gay marrieds in the Church. I want to know - in plain English - WHY ...? Can you give me a direct answer as to the 'why'?

This is not about "me." It is about Christian marriage. LGBT culture on same gender marriage is antithetical to Christrian truth. It is an otherworldly belief system. This thread should have been over with everyine just agreeing what Biblical truth that Christian marriage is man and woman/husband and wife. That is the only honest answer. It is the only answer no matter.

KCKID: It's about YOUR obsession on a subject that YOU and NOT the Bible is giving far too much 'air play' than is warranted. The Bible says NOTHING about 'Christian marriage'. The Bible tells us that women were little more than chattels of the male and that 'marriage' simply made this official, i.e. 'this man now owns a woman'. 'Christian marriage' is either your own invention or one that you've stolen from those that are as obsessed by this topic as you are.

Here's what THIS thread is about. Either answer the OP or admit defeat. And of course, for your own satisfaction, start your own thread;

Lest we forget, here is the OP for this thread:

There is no secular or theological challenge to be made that a "Christian marriage" isn't immutably a man and woman/husband and wife. Therefore, it should be a criminal act under current hate crimes laws, to accuse a Christian of hate, bigotry, or irrational . . ., if they assert the immutability of the structure of marriage as man and woman/husband and wife.

Yes, I've read the OP several times and HAVE acknowledged that biblical marriage is none other than male/female or male/many females that become the property of the male. They are chattels and not equals. A man's home is his first priority. The female was allegedly formed from a rib of Adam because 'a helper' for Adam (that's the biblical role for a wife) could not be found among the animals. Who knows ...if a giraffe could have been found to fulfill the role it could well have become male/giraffe.

As creepy as your bestiality theology is,

_________________________________________________________________

It was God, not I, that searched for a 'helper' for Adam from among the animals. Doesn't that seem creepy? No, of course not because God can apparently do whatever He likes (such as search for a 'helper' for Adam among the animals) and be admired for it.

The fact is, that BOTH bestiality and gay marriage is denounced in the very scrptire you use. So when the patrons of animal brothels in scandanavia demand that The Church recognizes their sexual orientation we have the answer to their theology as well.

Oh, and by the way, since "Jesus never said a word" about marrying animals, and this is the only basis you have ever presented to "affirm" gay marriage, your theology would also have to support marrying animals would it not? Under the same bit of logic and theological demand that is.

Christian marriage is man and woman/husband and wife. And if a Christian man wants to be in leadership in The Church, he has to be married to only one woman.

Where did Jesus command this?

Command? Jesus is referring to the very time in history that you reference. There is no such thing as animal marriages and of course no such thing as same gender marriage. I mean come on now pal, since God used Adams rib to make a woman "suitable" for Adam, you'd think that a clone of Adam would be another man.

God and Jesus stand against your theology "right from the beginning."

I agree with them. Not the progressives of the 21st century.

That said, since the OP has nothing to do with anything other than your own personal dislike for gay people in general and gay married people that *gulp* choose to belong to a Church I have therefore extended the argument.

I have literally trained Christians to watch out for the ploy you attempt here. Historically, it is the LGBT movement that is attacking The Church. And as you so "proudly" declare, you are their supporter.

Why can't you. like the sodomites I referenced above, just move on to more willing partners to ply your sexual wares? You should study the Roman persecutions of The Church. Most were because the Christians refused to live like pagans. Gay marriage and its political power threaten to ruin Christians that won't imbibe it. In Illinois, the Illinios Family Institute is teachijg Churches how to protect themselves from this kind of attack.

There are all sorts of places called a Church. LGBT's can invent their own religion and have at their gay lifestyle there all they want to. But Christian marriage is man and woman.

Yes, so you keep saying. Many Christians disagree, however.

As we can see IN the New testament, other-worldy people would be plying their trade IN The Church.

It is quite clear that the letters were written to combat heretics IN the Church. The New Testament was not written to non believers such as you. It was written to contend for the faith.

You present the OP as if directed by God to do so. Nonsense. This is all about you, 99percent, and your own bigotry and piety toward those that differ from YOUR particular mindset on this issue. You talk about a losing side regarding this issue ...well, you are on it, my friend and I can feel your frustration.

Yawn.

Your judgment of me is worthless.

I couldn't care less how much gay political propaganda you attempt to paint with here. The reality of Christian truth is that Christian marriage is man and woman. You can violate the rules here at this site with apparent support all day long . . . but LGBT culture is antithetical to Christian truth. I didn't write the New Testament, I just agree with what is written. You on th eother hand have invented a new religion and demand it to replace the proper canon.

What 'gay political propaganda' have I presented here? None that I know of. I don't require propaganda to field off any personal - yep, PERSONAL - beliefs that you might have about this topic. Christianity is all about Jesus and Jesus never said ANYTHING for or against homosexuality or gay marriage. It's infuriating that He didn't, isn't it?

You seem the only person infuriated. You seem possessed to make us believe in your views. Why not just peddle them elsewhere? You have nmade it clear that you don't like the Bible anyway. yet you try to use it to promote gay behavior. It's fascinating to watch. but I know what is driving you on to do so. I'm an all grown up Christian.

As Jesus proclaimed it in the Gospels and the writings reaffirm and define it so.

Jesus proclaimed and affirmed that divorce is against the will of God and implied NOTHING about people CHOOSING to marry whoever they wish. Using that particular scripture with which to condemn gay marriage is, if anything, an affront to God.

Notice he didn't have to address same gender sex acts? They were alerady condemned in the Torah. The Torah IS the Bible for Jews like Jesus. Notice jesus never "affirmed" gay sex anywhere? Not even in a marriage.

LGBT two wrongs don't make a right. You are proving how bad gay theology is. Not me.

That has nothing to do with what Jesus allegedly said.

I just spoke on a Christian talk show yesterday. I pointed out how scripture is always called into question when someone starts embracing gay culture. Of course. You have to. There is an other-worldy aspect to gay theology. It doesn't fit the canon of scripture, so people like you have to attack scripture too. That is common in a worldview that is antithetical to Christian truth. A theology such as the one you're peddling has to call into question orthodoxy. It has to. Facing the truth of scripture and your demands, exist where they do. Outside of the faith delivered only once to the Saints. According to the scripture.

Why would anyone, religious or secularist, NOT support and affirm Christians adhering to the consistent and immutable Biblical teaching that a marriage is a man/husband and woman/wife?

Because they have a mind of their own ...?

Noted. Free will and free choice. Thank you for that affirmation. Sin is always a choice.

Actually, it is intolerance. LGBT are perfectly free to invent their own religion. Even in Australia.

They don't need to. There are enough 'gay welcoming' Churches as it is.

Then no need for the vitriol with which you attack us. Go to your "gay affirming" Churches and be happy there. And of course. we will still keep growing larger numbers of Churches that adherev to scripture.

There, done. How diversity and tolerance is that. You go worship the god of ambiguity and afds and we will worship the God of Truth according to the New Testament.

Sounds fine to me.

And of course the only answer to which is a centuries upon centuries consistent and resounding: YES Christian marriage is man and woman/husband and wife.

For there is no other definition.

That's right. Women were considered to be - still are in many circles - the weaker sex. They could be obtained through the spoils of war, plunder and pillage ...and rape, of course. Under similar circumstances men would be considered 'slaves' whereas women were considered 'wives'. Is this the 'Christian marriage' that you would advocate for the Church?

Of course not. I am not a pagan and the scenario you represent does not exist in The Church. In fact, marriage described in the New Testament - which is immutably man and woman/husband and wife . . . - is decidely different from whatever it is you are presenting above.

But please note, that "I," like the original Christians, have always known that people like you will demand to live non and anti Christian lives. OK. Ever notice that Paul and Peter never tried to convert Nero? Dust on shoes placed where it is supposed to be placed. BUT, if you declare you ARE a Christian . . . I will respect that pronouncement here at this website. According to the rules.

I don't know that you are catching on to the (Christian) truth according to scripture even though I persistently bring it up. Marriage back in the days of yore was certainly not nearly as cracked up to be as you would have it. Even your buddy, Paul, had to tell his congregants to love their wives. Why the need to tell them if they were already doing so?

And?

Paul preached marriage as man and woman/husband and wife. ONE woman that is. At least for Church leadership . . .

Oops.

'Christian marriage' today is far removed from man/woman marriage in biblical times. Women (Christian or otherwise) today are (theoretically) considered to be the man's equal. Strike one. Women (Christian or otherwise) today even have (gasp) positions of authority in the workforce AS WELL AS IN CHURCH! Strike two. Many Christian women today work and leave their children in the care of others while they pull in a wage to make ends meet, i.e. big screen TV, mortgage payments, car, boat, etc. The superior hubby can't handle the payments of all the luxuries on his own. Strike three. Many women today actually open their mouths in Church while in the presence of their superior husbands, something that was expressively forbidden by Paul. Strike Four. I could go on and on to demonstrate that 'Christian marriage' today is NOTHING like intended by (God) the Bible. Why, then, do you have such a bee in your bonnet about gay marriage being anti-scriptural? Do you ever feel a tad, um, foolish ...?

I feel foolish every time I waste time answering your theology. Thanks for asking. But it is what I should do. You know how much I respect Jude . . .

But let's let Paul answer this for us. And of course, please notice that marriage is not same gender. Ever. Do you ever feel foolish trying to use the New Testament to promote the gay agenda? It fits as well as a healthy hand does to a glove with no fingers:

Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.� 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Your theology finds its absolute opposition directly from the New Testament.

Let's move away from anti-Semtic rhetoric and worthless accusations and the common spin of political correctness . . . and RE-focus on the truth of what a Christian marriage is.

Hopefully no one has a problem with truth.

The truth is what I'm after. You have so far failed to answer with the truth 4 reasonable questions that I've asked of you.

Invent a new thread to ply your new religion and post whatever premise you desire. In this thread it is about a Christian marriage. That of course is immutably man and woman/husband and wife. There is no other kind in reality.

'Marriage' or one's marital status does not describe or define a Christian. Nor does one's ability to read and quote from a book. Perhaps you might think about that because, clearly, you haven't given it too much thought thus far.

I have proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that I handle scripture accurately and honestly. I suggest that you start a thread about 21st century gay theology and attempt to prove that your deamnds for a gay religion stands or falls theologically. Place it in the apologetics section because that is where it would be most appropraitely argued. Every attempt where you have tried to create a place where your odd theological and secular political demands now take a higher place in authority than the canon of scripture, have been shown for that they are. But please note that I have never tried to stop you from having and living your personal opinions in some new religious or secular place.

[keithprosser3]

I agree - gay marriage is against orthodox Christian teaching, The question is whether that is black mark against gay marriage or against Christianity.

I won't say what my view on that is, but as a bisexual atheist I do have one.

[99percentatheism]

I agree - gay marriage is against orthodox Christian teaching, The question is whether that is black mark against gay marriage or against Christianity.

Are you saying that affirming a lie is respectable?

Please note that there is no such thing as gay marriage in the entire canon of scripture. So the answer to your last bit of pondering is that the black mark is decidely on gay marriage and its militant activists.

[keithprosser3]

I am not a Christian so I am free to place the black mark where I think it belongs.

It must be different for a thoughtful Christian, but I am not in a position to tell a Christian who has no objections to gay marriage how to reconcile their personal conscience with orthodox Christian teaching.

I made 'where I'm coming from' very clear in my post.

[10CC]

@99
You don't seem to understand that most of the people on this planet couldn't care less what your invisible friend says.

In fact, most of the people on the planet are more than happy for you and whatever little cult you belong to to declare marriage in your little cult to be whatever you or your invisible friend says it is.

Your little cult is quite entitled to reject anyone you like from being a member of your little cult.

What most of us reject is your claim that your little cult has the right to enforce your little cult's rules on the vast majority of humans, who have no interest in being members of your little cult.

In a society that allows freedom of speech, freedom of association and freedom of religion you have every right to your opinions, the problem occurs when you make the claim that everybody must abide by your, or your invisible friends, opinions.