Sodom, Greece, Rome and homosexuality.

[AlAyeti]

Does allowing for diversity include parents having no voice in what their children are forced to be taught and have to accept?

Do Christians and the many other cultures and belief systems opposed to homosexuality have the right to have their culture and religious views respected in society when it comes to decent and natural sexual behavior in the education system and in public?

Are homosexuals demanding accesss to children under the label of diversity and anti-hate legislation?

This seems the number one issue between average and normal "family" people and the homosexual agenda.

Can there be laws passed that keeps homosexuality from becoming forced on children and families that oppose it, without the homosexual community and homosexual action organizations crying discrimination?

Is there such a thing anymore as heterosexual rights?

[Cathar1950]

Ok then a list is out of the question.

I would never say Christians are &*%$, mostly because I have way to many friends and relatives that happen to be fundamentalist.
I know some nuts but for the most part they are loving caring people.
But so are most liberals I know. I know many right wing people that are not Christians.
There is no homosexual agenda except for some badly needed rights that need to be protected I know of no one that wants to make homosexuals out of others. There is an anti-gay agenda and they have protested at funerals of dead solders. But we understand them to be nuts and strange people. I am sure that if there is a problem with gays in churches some like john will leave and start a new denomination. Maybe even call it the right church of non-gays or something. I have relatives that are Reorganized Church of Jesus of the Later Day Saints. Years ago they let women become ordained.
Guess what now I have relatives in the RLDS and the new Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of the Later Day Saints Restored.
I know people in the Holiness Movement that broke from the Methodist in the 60's because they were to liberal. They didn't wear jewelry , watch TV and women didn't cut their hair and wear pants. So denominate on I guess.

[1John2_26]

Thank you for the irrelevant non-ground breaking Vatican document, twice.

Obviously I am not alone in believing that humanists are criminalizing Christians. This amazing Pope (Benedict) is not afraid to challenge those that are lying when they push relativism, as some kind of civil rights issue.

I dont think you smashed anything.

I like the insult hidden in there. I couldn't have painted a better picture of atheism.

I didnt leap on any hand grenade but you do get emotional.

Creative writing.

Me:
Quote:
You dont want to get rid of homosexuals he does.


You:
Quote:
That is a false statement written by you for whatever reason you did it. I have too many posts that say "they" should start their own religion, or go live out "their" lives and STOP atacking and criminalizing Christians that reject and disapprove of the Gay Agenda and the homosexualization of earth. That would lend itself to "not getting rid" of homosexuals.Just asking them to take their perversion elsewhere.


I think wanting them to go elsewhere is wanting to get rid of them. What were you thinking?

That they just take their agenda and go away. Why do homosexuals need to parasitize the Chutch? It is creepy.

They are not attacking or criminalizing Christians you are the one that wants to do that to Christians in your church that are against your anti-gay agenda. You have it backwards.

Biblical "family" and "marriage: and "morality" are seen only as hateful to liberals, humanists, gays and lesbians and other anti-Christians. The anti-gay agenda was written and canonized in the Bible long ago.

Quote:
What is literally twisted, is the means by which homosexuality is forced on society.

It is not being forced on society. You said you didnt lie.

And I as usual am not. You can teach children in public schools to celebrate anal and oral sex acts (homosexuality), but you cannot teach them about Christ Jesus and practicing Christianity (even if the children HAVE Christian parents). It is seen as a hate crime to teach children in California and Massachusetts that "family" IS and always has been man-woman-children. The Humanist-secular postion of defining "family" in a whole new way has won the day.

Society needs to learn to accept homosexuals without prejudice and bigotry. No one wants you to be a homosexual.

Wrong. Homosexuals are now teaching children that those "funny feelings" they get about sex may indeed be homosexual feelings that they should just realize. NO parent is allowed to challenge that now that homosexuality has be equated to normality. And Darwin forbid a religious parent questions the pedophilia inherent in teaching children sexual deviance. Now only the liberal paradigm takes power.

Quote:
Cathar, you really should use logic and reason, and far less emotionalism.

There you go projecting your own failings again and you said you didnt lie.

Your second grader comeback here is fun to look at on my screen.

Quote:
I have asked you to provide any evidence "from the Bible" (since you have offered that you are a priest), where sodomy/perderasty-homosexuality-Gay, is celebrated, supported, condoned, promoted, or preached as acceptable, anywhere in the New Testament. I listed the sodomy/pederasty-homosexuality-Gay, to indicate a historical timeframe.

No one says that all the unrelated things above are celebrated or supported in the bible.

I have posted the gay evangelicalism organizations that do indeed claim the Bible celebrates homosexuality. Their heresy is celebrated too.

That is your agenda and lie that they are the homosexual issue.

Soulforce or Evangelicals Concerned show the depths that gay activists will go to seek out converts to homosexuality. Without a shred of guilt or trepidation they seek out innocent people to convert to a belief system that cannot find support in the Bible, and yet, they pass themselves off brazenly as believers.

What you have is 5 or 6 passages taken out of the bible to support your fear and loathing.

Wrong. Take away the modern words "homosexuality" or, "homosexual" and the act and behaviors of homosexuals and homosexuality are condemned anyway. Read John 1,2,or 3, Peter 1 and 2, Jude, there is nothing that supports same-gender sex acts. But in every way, disapproves of them. Far more than just "5 or 6" passages.

Two are from Lev. Written in the 6th century by priests. By the way they were not allowed blemishes either.
The others are taken from Paul that his problems with sex and some even suggest he may have been a closet homosexual but was certainly not promoting Leviticus and the Law.
Gen. and Sodom dont count because it is not about homosexuality.

Homosexuals are very inhospitable to any dissenters of homosexuality. "They" and they alone demand the rights to define morality and decency and now even Christianity itself. But, as Pope Benedict is showing the Christian world, the Gay Agenda is to criminalize Christians that dare believe the Bible and say anything against the Queer Community. Even the Queer Culture invading and parasitizing Church doctrine to spread its message of perversion, heresy, promiscuity and licentiousness.

You admit David and Jonathan might have been lovers but it is ok as long as they marry women and have children.

Repentance and "changing" your sinning ways IS the message in the Bible. It is only seen as hate crimes to humanists, secularists, gays and lesbians, progressives and the rest of the monolithic club.

I guess Ruth and Naomi would be in the same class.

Wrong 100%. There is not a shred of homosexuality between this mother in law and her daughter in law. But, the perversion inherent in that position is not surprising coming from a belief system steeped in inhospitable actions meted out to those that will not submit to anti-Christian beliefs. The incredible beauty and the lineage to Christ Jesus is though. "As a Christian" I see the demonic hatred of Christ Jesus and the Christian life, in most liberal/progressive actions, which, the Gay Agenda is fueled by.

When are you going to make sense?

It seems that you and most of the anti-Christians here seem to understand me quite well.

I am off to the caf.

How cliche.

[1John2_26]

While I don't want to be too egregiously off-topic, since 1John has brought it up, I will also note that he also presented an untrue statement here, in post #6

Ahhhh no you don't. Liberals or anyone that think Jesus is a myth and claim to be Christians are wrong, and when they assert their position as valid, they are liars.

Here is my post:

From liberals that claim that they are Christians:

Quote:
A Bishop Speaks
John Shelby Spong

The Right Man for a New World
The new Archbishop of Canterbury must get rid of the Jesus who "died for our sins."

In late February the Church of England, the mother church of Anglicanism, will install a new leader. He is an interesting man and, in my opinion, the best of all possible choices to head the third largest group of Christians in the world. His name is Rowan Williams.

In many ways it was a daring appointment, and in this choice the entire Anglican Communion, of which the Episcopal Church in the United States is a part, has decided to join the modern world. It represented a specific decision to reverse the dreadful and misguided reign of his predecessor, George Carey. Carey had positioned Anglicanism in the right-wing evangelical camp of Bible quoters.

Rowan Williams is only 52 and could serve in this position for almost two decades, giving him time to put his stamp upon the Church. He is a product of England's middle-class who has developed his intellectual skills at both Oxford and Cambridge. He was a theology professor at Oxford prior to being elected a bishop in Wales only a few years ago. Shortly thereafter his fellow bishops in Wales chose him to head the entire Anglican Church in Wales.

Williams has the academic skills to engage changing ideas in our culture. One hopes he will use these gifts to hammer out a Christianity that is both relevant and believable. Christianity desperately needs to escape the language of antiquity that has portrayed sacrifice and shed blood as signs of salvation.

The Jesus who "died for our sins" has simply got to go in our post-Darwinian world. Christianity must move beyond a rescuing Jesus, who overcame a fall that never happened, even metaphorically, to restore human life to a status it has never had, even mythologically. Williams' task is nothing less than to articulate a new Christianity for a new world.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/119/story_11975_1.html


The club-members of liberals all chant their approval of this completely anti-Christ declaration. It is liberal theology. It is Satanic. Biblically speaking.

Coulter, like some other people, are waking up to the lies of false believers. She just has the guts and position to do something to them.

Subsequently, he did make a gracious admission that this was the case, in the second non-quoted paragraph of post 11.

Uh uh. I said it was fair for anti-Christians to call me a liar. And heck, they get a free pass to do so with impugnity here. And here is my post:

Quote:
1John wrote:
Why would a liberal claim to be a Christian when their preaching, statements, beliefs and actions are contradicted by the Gospels and the letters of the New Testament?


This question for debate makes the unfounded assumption that liberal beliefs are in general contradicted by the NT. There have already been examples provided showing this not to be the case. It seems to me the question should be split into two questions:

Are liberal beliefs contrary to the NT? IF so, which particular beliefs are contradictory to the NT?

Assuming a self-identified liberal holds views contrary to the NT, why would said person also self-identify as a CHristian?

In reference to quotes made by Bishop Spong:

1John wrote:
The club-members of liberals all chant their approval of this completely anti-Christ declaration.

I bolded the all.

Lacking any evidence that all liberal Christians believe as Bishop Spong does, and having numerous examples of self-identified liberal Christians who do not share Spong's view, even here on this forum, this statement deserves to be called what it is, a lie.


A carnation, if it could speak, could call itself a rose, to make the roses it kicks it with feel good, but, the carnation, sonner or later would need to be told it is a carnation.

Fair enough you calling my post a lie, but the "clubmembers" of which I write, you and the "clubmembers," (that I have listed so many times) know very well, agree with Spong that Jesus is myth. The infidels.orgers.

Hank Hanigraf says that heresy usually begings with the wrong idea of the nature of God. (Or something along that line.) Sometimes it is just plain old satanic deception. Notice I always call for my adversaries to test what I write.

For me a my house; we will serve the Lord. The real One.

Liberals are free to serve whatever thet want to create, but not without challenge when they venture beyond their walls, and look for new members. Sound orthodox believers have been hammered by liberals for far too long. It is time to turn truth towards their false witness. They will not last long in that realm.

Spong, as an example, needs to be put into his place as a heretic and liar, not because of politics, but because that is what he is. I do not see that happening from his camp in the "liberal" Anglican voice. They seem quite OK with his satanic presentation of Christ Jesus. That is, after you test his doctrine.

I'm cool with being charged a liar, because it can only lead to search and research into truth. On that I rest quite securely with no worry. At all. My vindication, already waiting for the turn of a page in the New Testament, makes the charge of deception as false as the Jesus is myth lies.

Test away.

I admitted no lie, or lying on my part. In fact Spong's views are echoed loudly here on D,C and R. (.com).

We also had a whole thread devoted to the statement that humanism and evolution are the same or in the mathematical shorth and'humanism = evolution'.

One just needs to read the Humanist Manifesto II.

So:

SECOND: Promises of immortal salvation or fear of eternal damnation are both illusory and harmful. They distract humans from present concerns, from self-actualization, and from rectifying social injustices. Modern science discredits such historic concepts as the "ghost in the machine" and the "separable soul." Rather, science affirms that the human species is an emergence from natural evolutionary forces. As far as we know, the total personality is a function of the biological organism transacting in a social and cultural context. There is no credible evidence that life survives the death of the body. We continue to exist in our progeny and in the way that our lives have influenced others in our culture.

Humanist Manifesto II
-- Preface --

It is forty years since Humanist Manifesto I (1933) appeared. Events since then make that earlier statement seem far too optimistic. Nazism has shown the depths of brutality of which humanity is capable. Other totalitarian regimes have suppressed human rights without ending poverty. Science has sometimes brought evil as well as good. Recent decades have shown that inhuman wars can be made in the name of peace. The beginnings of police states, even in democratic societies, widespread government espionage, and other abuses of power by military, political, and industrial elites, and the continuance of unyielding racism, all present a different and difficult social outlook. In various societies, the demands of women and minority groups for equal rights effectively challenge our generation.

As we approach the twenty-first century, however, an affirmative and hopeful vision is needed. Faith, commensurate with advancing knowledge, is also necessary. In the choice between despair and hope, humanists respond in this Humanist Manifesto II with a positive declaration for times of uncertainty.

I don't see how this statement can be taken as anything other than untrue, using any standard definitions of these two words. Certainly those posting in that thread all felt this was obviously an untrue statement, and though motivated by specific instances of 1John making this claim, he did not visit the thread.

My fame and influence (as seen in the inspiration of yet another thread) cause me to be too busy for all of my appearances. Really. I do know that I am not omnipresent. (I'm not lying.)

At any rate, I would encourage all, in order to determine which statements are true or not when it is possible to do so, to define one's terms, present evidence, and use logic and reasoning.

After re-reading the Humanist Manifesto II, I'll be thinking about dropping all of the labels for anti-Christians, such as: liberal, atheist, progressive, gay, lesbian, etc., etc., etc., etc., at al . . . and just use "Humanist." Since they all dance to the Humanist piper.

Some statements, of course, are not 'truth statements' but matters of opinion, values, etc., and so are not amenable to us determing there absolute truth or falsity.

And some are just doggone fact.

[melikio]

Since they all dance to the Humanist piper.

All? (Can anyone say "hype" or "exaggeration"?)

When I look to see where Jesus "stood", why don't you seem to be standing there with Him? (Who are YOU dancing with, 1John?)

-Mel-

[Wyvern]

Obviously I am not alone in believing that humanists are criminalizing Christians. This amazing Pope (Benedict) is not afraid to challenge those that are lying when they push relativism, as some kind of civil rights issue.

John show us that this isn't just more paranoia on your part, show one law, just one single law that states it is illegal to be a christian. Everything you have shown that you think is criminalizing christianity so far are a bunch of antidiscrimination laws. I hope you don't think it is your right as a christian to discriminate against others and that these laws are impinging upon this supposed right.

Biblical "family" and "marriage: and "morality" are seen only as hateful to liberals, humanists, gays and lesbians and other anti-Christians.

Not true. Just as you told an atheist on these forums he can't say anything about religion, you as a conservative can't say anything about liberals, it's only fair.

[Suzanne]

I just want to say .. That When all is said and done and IT never will have any ending only for all of us that ARE BELIEVERS OR DENIERS of CHRIST JESUS , THE FATHER SON and HOLY SPIRIT..

ALL THAT HAVE DENIED THE GOSPEL THE GOOD NEWS OF THE SHED BLOOD OF CHRIST JESUS>> THESE ALL!!!!!!!! SHALL HAVE TO FACE their JUDGE EVENTUALLY. and when that time comes they to SHALL BOW THEIR KNEE and KNOW JESUS IS LORD.. why?? because when they FACE The FATHER They will have NO witness within. NONE UNDERSTAND THAT NONE OF US HAVE ANY EXCUSE for not believing in the shed Blood of Christ Jesus NOR the WORD MANIFESTED. FOR THE evidence speaks for itself. LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD, and THE WORD continues to speak and NOTHING CAN CHANGE EITHER of those two truths.

THE DIFFERENCE between the BELIEVER the SHEEP, WHEAT and the UNBELIEVER THE GOATS, TARES, is all IN THE FRUIT of the spirit.. THIS too is DECERNED BY BY all those that know the truth of GOD and His word that HE HAS SAID and already Done. ALL THAT do not do what is right to do GET THEIR DUE REWARD EVENTUALLY. THE MURDERER will RECIEVE the DEATH penalty . BY the hand of the EXECUTIONER.. and the final judge IS THE ONE AND ONLY JUDGE OF US ALL .. because when it all is said and done and over . IT IS THE WORD OF TRUTH THAT will REIGN FOREVER TRUTH and NO ONE NOR ANY wll ever CHANGE THIS TRUTH OF The GOSPEL NO MATTER how they TRY . SIMPLY BECAUSE GOD HAS ALREADY WRITTEN IT UPON The HEARTS OF EVERY CHILD OF GOD> THAT HAVE believed CONFESSED and THESE Then HAVE also RECIEVED HIS BAPTISM . and the evidence is within them AND THE WORDS WE SPEAK ARE from HIM THROUGH THAT VERY SPIRIT OF GOD THAT WAS AND HAS ALREADY been written OVF PROPHECIED ABOUT BEING MANIFESTED AND GIVEN JUST AS IT was ON THAT FIRST DAY OF PENTECOST. CHRIST ROSEon THE THIRD DAY. SEVEN DAYS LATER the BAPTISM of the PROMISE OF HIS HOLY SPIRIT the TONGUES OF FIRE WERE UPON ALL THISE THAT RECIEVED this BAPTISM that had been prophecied by JOHN.. ALL should understand that the evidence of thios INDWELLING OF HIS SPIRIT was FIRE OF THE TONGUES THAT WERE ON EACH ONE..

TRUTH is that all that know within their heart that they are in sin. will disagree with the truth that we whom know what God has said is a truth and what HIS ABOMINATIONS ARE??? when we come speaking against all this sinful action and all the abominations that OUR HEAVENLY FATHER HAS already said and put forth the CURSING FOR THEM. then we of course get just what we see being voiced within this forum today. AND this is only because the People that disagree and are for this agenda of SAME SEX MARRIAGE and having all these depraved ideas such as ABORTION OF THE UNBORN ON DEMAND GAY RIGHTS, GAY MARRIAGES, THE NAMBA AGENDA AND PRACTICE, all of these DEPRAVITIES against GODS WAY OF MANKIND TO DO THINGS and LIVE TO HAVE successful LONG abundent and PROPEROUS and happy FULFILLING LIVES?????? all that GO AGAINST GOD END UP UNHAPPY CONDEMNED DESEASED SICK DEJECTED HATED AND DISPISED BY ALL THAT ARE OF GOD ALMIGHTY BECAUSE THESE ARE UNCLEAN UNGODLY, HUMAN BEINGS THAT HAVE NOT REPENTED OF THEIR SIN OF DEPRAVITY AND REFUSE TO LISTEN TO THE WORD THAT IS GIVEN THEM> and CONTINUE IN THEIR SIN even after being TOLD what their sin is. BECAUSE THEY DENY THE VERY WORD and the messengers of THIS FATHER GOD HOLY SPIRIT FILLED THESE ONES THAT HAVE RECIEVED BELIEVED AND CONFESSED THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD THAT IS CALLED JESUS CHRIST > THAT HAS BEEN RISEN FROM THE DEAD, BY THE VERY HAND OF THE FATHER GOD ALMIGHTY. FOR THAT ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD JESUS THAT WAS BORN OF THAT VIRGIN BIRTH. ALREADY HAD IT WRITTEN OF HIMSELF . THAT HIS LIFE WAS NOT TAKEN BY ANYONE!!!!!!! HE GAVE HIS LIFE THAT ALL MEN MIGHT BE SET FREE FROM BEING A CAPTIVE. YET THERE ARE THOSE IN EVERY GENERATION THAT REFUSE TO BE SET FREE FROM THEIR SINS. BY TURNING FROM THEIR SINFUL ACTS OF SODOMY, PEDIPHILIA, THEIR DENIAL AND CONTINUEING IN THIS DENIAL OF THE WORD OF OUR LORD GOD ALMIGHTY THAT HE HAS ALREADY HAD WRITTEN FOR ALL TO LEARN FROM AND KNOW WHAT HIS WAY TO LIVE IS!!! WELL EVERY GENERATION SINCE TIME AND EARTH HAS BEN AND MANKIND HAS BEEN HAS HAD THOSE THAT DENIED THE TRUTH OF THE FATHER AND HIS WORD NOT JUST DENYING THOSE THAT COME WITH THAT TRUTH BUT DENYING THE VERY EVIDENCE THAT IS ALREADY PRESENT FOR AL TO KNOW AND SEE. IN DOING SO THEY DENY HIS VERY SPIRIT THAT HOLY SPIRIT THAT IS ALSO A REALITY AND PRESENCE TO BE SEEN AND KNOWN FOR THE WORD THAT GOD IS IS MANIFESTED TO EVERYONE EACH AND EVERY DAY WHEN HIS TRUTH THAT HE , THE LORD HAS HAD WRITTEN FOR US ALL IS SPOKEN< PREACHED AND GIVEN BY PEOPLE SUCH AS MYSELF, AND JOHN AND OTHERS THAT HAVE CONME IN HERE with the TRUTH OF THE HEAVENLY FATHER GOD LORD AND SAVIOR OF THE WORLD.

CHRISTIANS HAVE KNOWN FOR EONS THAT THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD IS WITHIN US> AS BEING CHILDREN BORN OF GOD BECAUSE WE HAVE BELIEVED BY FAITH IN THIS GOSPEL OF TRUTH AND WE AS CHRISTIANS WOULD NEVER GIVE UP OUR LIVES BY THE HANDS OF ANOTHER JUST FOR THE NAME OF JESUS IF WE DID NOT HAVE EVIDENCE WITHIN US AND KNOW WITHIN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS AND HAD THE EVIDENCE OF HIS REALITY AND TRUTH OF THE WORDS HE HAS SAID AND DOES DO EVEN TO THIS VERY DAY> THROUGH ALL THOSE THAT HAVE BELIEVED CONFESSED HIM AS BEING THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD , AND HIS PROMISE OF HIS BAPTISM IS TRUTH AND A EALITY FOR US ALL BECAUSE WE HAVE BELIEVED AND IT IS BY FAITH THAT WE LIVE AND IT IS BY THE GRACE AND MERCY AND LOVE OF THE FATHER GOD AND SAVIOR THAT WE DO LIVE TO TESTIFY OF THIS ONE CALLED JESUS THE LIVING CHRIST THAT ROSE AGAIN AND THIS DAY HE RULES AND REIGNS IN HEAVENLY PLACES and so it shall be forever and ever and NOTHING AND NONE WILL EVER CHANGE THIS TRUTH OF THIS GOSPEL OF THE CROSS . FOR the CROSS IS A STUMBLING BLOCK TO ALL THOSE CALLED JEWS AND IT IS FOOLISHNESS TO ALL THOISE THAT HAVE NOT BELIEVED BUT TO ALL OF US THAT ARE BEING SAVED>> IT IS LIFE AND POWER> FOR POWER IS IN THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST AND HIS TRUTH THAT THE LORD HATH HAD WRITTEN LONG BEFORE ANY OF US THAT ARE BREATHING AND HAVING LIFE THIS DAY WERE EVEN IN OUR MOTHERS WOMABS> FOR GOPD KNEW ME BEFORE I WAS IN MY MOTHERS WOMB AND WHETHER ANY HERE BELIEVES IT OR NOT THE SAME IS A TRUTH FOR ALL > FOR GOD ALMIGHTY IS THE GOD OF ABRAHAM , ISAAC, AND JACOB, and THIS TRUTH CANNOT EVER BE DENIED WHEN IT IS READ ABOUT SEEN FOR THE TRUTH THAT IS AND HAS ALREADY BEEN WRITTEN OF THESE THREE NAMES> AND IF YOUR NAME HAS NOT BEEN RECORDED IN THE LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE THEN THESE SHALL SUFFER THAT SECOND DEATH THAT IS WRITTEN OF. BUT FOR ALL THAT HAVE BELIEVED CONFESSED AND RECIEVED THIS GOSPEL . DO HAVE LIFE AND WILL HAVE LIFE AND DEATH IS OVERCOME AND IT NO LONGER HAS ANY STING.. FOR DEATH AND HADES and SATAN HAE BEEN DEFEATED BY THE VERY BLOOD OF THE LAMB OF GOD!!!!!!!!!!!

NOW anyone that CHOOSES TO DENY THIS GOSPEL THE ONLY BEGOTTENSON CALLED JESUS THE CHRIST THAT suffered has DIED and has been risen and lives within the hearts and minds of we whom have and do believe BY FAITH IN THIAT CROSS GOSPEL AND LORD AND BLOOD COVENANT THAT WAS MADE HAS BEEN MADE AND IS EVIDENT WITHIN EVEN YOU BECAUSE YOU DO LIVE AND HAVE THIS LIFE THIS DAY!!!!! then GO AHEAD DENY THE VERY EVIDENCE THAT HAS BEEN GIVEN TO YOU THIS DAY!!!!!!!!! FOR THIS TO HAS ALREADY BEEN WRITTEN SAID PREACHED AND TOLD . and I SAY IOT AGAIN!!
THUS SAYETH THE LORD;
"TODAY!!!!!! I call HEAVEN AND EARTH TO WITNESS AGAINST YOU, THAT YOU, THAT I HAVE SET BEFORE YOU LIFE AND DEATH BLESSING AND CURSING; THEREFORE CHOOSE LIFE, FOR YOU AND YOUR DESCENDANTS. MAY LIVE. THAT THOU MAY LOVE THY GOD AND THAT YOU OBEY HIS VOICE."

IF ANY IN HERE DO NOT BELIEVE IN WHAT HAS BEEN WRITTEN ABOVE. THEN GO AHEAD AND DENY ALL THAT I ASA WITNESS UNTO YOU THIS DAY. KNOWING HIS LOVE, HIS MERCY, HIS POWER , and HIS COVENANT HE HAS GIVEN FOR ME AND ALL . THEN BY ALL MEANS . DENY ME , THE WORD I HAVE GIVEN YOU THIS DAY. BUT REMEMBER THIS MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS ALL THAT DENY THE WORD OF WE WHOM HAVE BELIEVED DO LIVE BY THAT VER FAITH IN THIS GOSPEL WE COME TELLING OF ANF WE HAVE READ LEARNED OF AND NOW TELL YOU THIS DAY OF THIS TRUTH OF THIS JESIUS CHRIST AND HIS PROMISE IS GIVEN TO US WHOM COME ALSO TODAY GIVING YOU HIS TRUTH THROUGH THAT VERY SPIRIT BAPTISM THAT WAS WRITTEN OF PROPHECIED BY JOHN THE BAPTIST AND IS EVIDENT WITHIN WE OF FAITH BELIEF AND OUR CONFESSION BEING A TESTIMENT TO AND OF HIS REALITY AND TRUTH WITHIN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS AND EVEN BY THE WORDS WE SPEAK> AND THE WAY WE LIVE> THEN BY ALL MEANS DENY THE LORD GOD FATHER AND GOD OF ABRAHAM , ISAAC, and JACOB, JUST AS IT HAS ALREADY BEEN WRITTEN PREACHED TOLD AND IS EVIDENT BEFORE YOU THIS DAY AND BY SO DOING YOU WILL BE ALSO DENYING THE VERY HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD AND THE PROMISE THAT IS GIVEN TO ANY AND WOSOEVER WILL BELIEVE IN THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD AND WE CALL HIM LESUS CHRIST OUR LORD. AND HE IS THE ONLY WAY! THE ONLY LIGHT THAT CAME< DIED< WAS BURIED< AND IS RISEN AND LIVES AND REIGNS HAVING BEEN GIVEN ALL AUTHORITY IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH ; MATTHEW 28;18:, MALACHI. 3;16:, ISAIAH, 9; 6:-7:, Luke 1;, John 1;29:-34:, John 14:, John 16: , and there are many more to read and understand of this truth I have brought to you this day . ALL UNBELIEVERS HAVE A CHOICE IN HERE THIS DAY >FOR TOMORROW YOU MAY NOT HAVE A CHIOICE TO MAKE because YOU WILL ALREADY HAVE DIED before another DAWNING BREAKS UPON THE HORIZEN OF THIS EARTH THAT GOD ALMIGHTY YOUR CREATOR HAS N MADE CREATED .. I SUGEST YOU do NOT MISS THE OPPORTUNITY THAT JHA been afforded you this day and CHOOSE HIM HIS TRUTH OF HIS WORD THAT HJAS CONME THROUGH JUST ONE OF HIS HOSTS THIS DAY!!!!! I ASK IT OF MY HEAVENLY FATHER IN HEAVEN THIS DAY IN JESUS NAME I PRAY THAT MANY HAVE EARS TO HEAR AND A OPEN DOOR TO ALLOW YOU IN LORD > THIS DAY > AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

While I don't want to be too egregiously off-topic, since 1John has brought it up, I will also note that he also presented an untrue statement here, in post #6

Ahhhh no you don't. Liberals or anyone that think Jesus is a myth and claim to be Christians are wrong, and when they assert their position as valid, they are liars.

Here is my post:

From liberals that claim that they are Christians:

Quote:
A Bishop Speaks
John Shelby Spong

The Right Man for a New World
The new Archbishop of Canterbury must get rid of the Jesus who "died for our sins."

In late February the Church of England, the mother church of Anglicanism, will install a new leader. He is an interesting man and, in my opinion, the best of all possible choices to head the third largest group of Christians in the world. His name is Rowan Williams.

In many ways it was a daring appointment, and in this choice the entire Anglican Communion, of which the Episcopal Church in the United States is a part, has decided to join the modern world. It represented a specific decision to reverse the dreadful and misguided reign of his predecessor, George Carey. Carey had positioned Anglicanism in the right-wing evangelical camp of Bible quoters.

Rowan Williams is only 52 and could serve in this position for almost two decades, giving him time to put his stamp upon the Church. He is a product of England's middle-class who has developed his intellectual skills at both Oxford and Cambridge. He was a theology professor at Oxford prior to being elected a bishop in Wales only a few years ago. Shortly thereafter his fellow bishops in Wales chose him to head the entire Anglican Church in Wales.

Williams has the academic skills to engage changing ideas in our culture. One hopes he will use these gifts to hammer out a Christianity that is both relevant and believable. Christianity desperately needs to escape the language of antiquity that has portrayed sacrifice and shed blood as signs of salvation.

The Jesus who "died for our sins" has simply got to go in our post-Darwinian world. Christianity must move beyond a rescuing Jesus, who overcame a fall that never happened, even metaphorically, to restore human life to a status it has never had, even mythologically. Williams' task is nothing less than to articulate a new Christianity for a new world.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/119/story_11975_1.html


The club-members of liberals all chant their approval of this completely anti-Christ declaration. It is liberal theology. It is Satanic. Biblically speaking.

Coulter, like some other people, are waking up to the lies of false believers. She just has the guts and position to do something to them.

Subsequently, he did make a gracious admission that this was the case, in the second non-quoted paragraph of post 11.

Uh uh. I said it was fair for anti-Christians to call me a liar. And heck, they get a free pass to do so with impugnity here. And here is my post:

Quote:
1John wrote:
Why would a liberal claim to be a Christian when their preaching, statements, beliefs and actions are contradicted by the Gospels and the letters of the New Testament?


This question for debate makes the unfounded assumption that liberal beliefs are in general contradicted by the NT. There have already been examples provided showing this not to be the case. It seems to me the question should be split into two questions:

Are liberal beliefs contrary to the NT? IF so, which particular beliefs are contradictory to the NT?

Assuming a self-identified liberal holds views contrary to the NT, why would said person also self-identify as a CHristian?

In reference to quotes made by Bishop Spong:

1John wrote:
The club-members of liberals all chant their approval of this completely anti-Christ declaration.

I bolded the all.

Lacking any evidence that all liberal Christians believe as Bishop Spong does, and having numerous examples of self-identified liberal Christians who do not share Spong's view, even here on this forum, this statement deserves to be called what it is, a lie.


A carnation, if it could speak, could call itself a rose, to make the roses it kicks it with feel good, but, the carnation, sonner or later would need to be told it is a carnation.

Fair enough you calling my post a lie, but the "clubmembers" of which I write, you and the "clubmembers," (that I have listed so many times) know very well, agree with Spong that Jesus is myth. The infidels.orgers.

Hank Hanigraf says that heresy usually begings with the wrong idea of the nature of God. (Or something along that line.) Sometimes it is just plain old satanic deception. Notice I always call for my adversaries to test what I write.

For me a my house; we will serve the Lord. The real One.

Liberals are free to serve whatever thet want to create, but not without challenge when they venture beyond their walls, and look for new members. Sound orthodox believers have been hammered by liberals for far too long. It is time to turn truth towards their false witness. They will not last long in that realm.

Spong, as an example, needs to be put into his place as a heretic and liar, not because of politics, but because that is what he is. I do not see that happening from his camp in the "liberal" Anglican voice. They seem quite OK with his satanic presentation of Christ Jesus. That is, after you test his doctrine.

I'm cool with being charged a liar, because it can only lead to search and research into truth. On that I rest quite securely with no worry. At all. My vindication, already waiting for the turn of a page in the New Testament, makes the charge of deception as false as the Jesus is myth lies.

Test away.

I admitted no lie, or lying on my part. In fact Spong's views are echoed loudly here on D,C and R. (.com).

We also had a whole thread devoted to the statement that humanism and evolution are the same or in the mathematical shorth and'humanism = evolution'.

One just needs to read the Humanist Manifesto II.

So:

SECOND: Promises of immortal salvation or fear of eternal damnation are both illusory and harmful. They distract humans from present concerns, from self-actualization, and from rectifying social injustices. Modern science discredits such historic concepts as the "ghost in the machine" and the "separable soul." Rather, science affirms that the human species is an emergence from natural evolutionary forces. As far as we know, the total personality is a function of the biological organism transacting in a social and cultural context. There is no credible evidence that life survives the death of the body. We continue to exist in our progeny and in the way that our lives have influenced others in our culture.

Humanist Manifesto II
-- Preface --

It is forty years since Humanist Manifesto I (1933) appeared. Events since then make that earlier statement seem far too optimistic. Nazism has shown the depths of brutality of which humanity is capable. Other totalitarian regimes have suppressed human rights without ending poverty. Science has sometimes brought evil as well as good. Recent decades have shown that inhuman wars can be made in the name of peace. The beginnings of police states, even in democratic societies, widespread government espionage, and other abuses of power by military, political, and industrial elites, and the continuance of unyielding racism, all present a different and difficult social outlook. In various societies, the demands of women and minority groups for equal rights effectively challenge our generation.

As we approach the twenty-first century, however, an affirmative and hopeful vision is needed. Faith, commensurate with advancing knowledge, is also necessary. In the choice between despair and hope, humanists respond in this Humanist Manifesto II with a positive declaration for times of uncertainty.

I don't see how this statement can be taken as anything other than untrue, using any standard definitions of these two words. Certainly those posting in that thread all felt this was obviously an untrue statement, and though motivated by specific instances of 1John making this claim, he did not visit the thread.

My fame and influence (as seen in the inspiration of yet another thread) cause me to be too busy for all of my appearances. Really. I do know that I am not omnipresent. (I'm not lying.)

At any rate, I would encourage all, in order to determine which statements are true or not when it is possible to do so, to define one's terms, present evidence, and use logic and reasoning.

After re-reading the Humanist Manifesto II, I'll be thinking about dropping all of the labels for anti-Christians, such as: liberal, atheist, progressive, gay, lesbian, etc., etc., etc., etc., at al . . . and just use "Humanist." Since they all dance to the Humanist piper.

Some statements, of course, are not 'truth statements' but matters of opinion, values, etc., and so are not amenable to us determing there absolute truth or falsity.

And some are just doggone fact.

[Suzanne]

I just want to say .. That When all is said and done and IT never will have any ending only for all of us that ARE BELIEVERS OR DENIERS of CHRIST JESUS , THE FATHER SON and HOLY SPIRIT..

ALL THAT HAVE DENIED THE GOSPEL THE GOOD NEWS OF THE SHED BLOOD OF CHRIST JESUS>> THESE ALL!!!!!!!! SHALL HAVE TO FACE their JUDGE EVENTUALLY. and when that time comes they to SHALL BOW THEIR KNEE and KNOW JESUS IS LORD.. why?? because when they FACE The FATHER They will have NO witness within. NONE UNDERSTAND THAT NONE OF US HAVE ANY EXCUSE for not believing in the shed Blood of Christ Jesus NOR the WORD MANIFESTED. FOR THE evidence speaks for itself. LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD, and THE WORD continues to speak and NOTHING CAN CHANGE EITHER of those two truths.

THE DIFFERENCE between the BELIEVER the SHEEP, WHEAT and the UNBELIEVER THE GOATS, TARES, is all IN THE FRUIT of the spirit.. THIS too is DECERNED BY BY all those that know the truth of GOD and His word that HE HAS SAID and already Done. ALL THAT do not do what is right to do GET THEIR DUE REWARD EVENTUALLY. THE MURDERER will RECIEVE the DEATH penalty . BY the hand of the EXECUTIONER.. and the final judge IS THE ONE AND ONLY JUDGE OF US ALL .. because when it all is said and done and over . IT IS THE WORD OF TRUTH THAT will REIGN FOREVER TRUTH and NO ONE NOR ANY wll ever CHANGE THIS TRUTH OF The GOSPEL NO MATTER how they TRY . SIMPLY BECAUSE GOD HAS ALREADY WRITTEN IT UPON The HEARTS OF EVERY CHILD OF GOD> THAT HAVE believed CONFESSED and THESE Then HAVE also RECIEVED HIS BAPTISM . and the evidence is within them AND THE WORDS WE SPEAK ARE from HIM THROUGH THAT VERY SPIRIT OF GOD THAT WAS AND HAS ALREADY been written OVF PROPHECIED ABOUT BEING MANIFESTED AND GIVEN JUST AS IT was ON THAT FIRST DAY OF PENTECOST. CHRIST ROSEon THE THIRD DAY. SEVEN DAYS LATER the BAPTISM of the PROMISE OF HIS HOLY SPIRIT the TONGUES OF FIRE WERE UPON ALL THISE THAT RECIEVED this BAPTISM that had been prophecied by JOHN.. ALL should understand that the evidence of thios INDWELLING OF HIS SPIRIT was FIRE OF THE TONGUES THAT WERE ON EACH ONE..

TRUTH is that all that know within their heart that they are in sin. will disagree with the truth that we whom know what God has said is a truth and what HIS ABOMINATIONS ARE??? when we come speaking against all this sinful action and all the abominations that OUR HEAVENLY FATHER HAS already said and put forth the CURSING FOR THEM. then we of course get just what we see being voiced within this forum today. AND this is only because the People that disagree and are for this agenda of SAME SEX MARRIAGE and having all these depraved ideas such as ABORTION OF THE UNBORN ON DEMAND GAY RIGHTS, GAY MARRIAGES, THE NAMBA AGENDA AND PRACTICE, all of these DEPRAVITIES against GODS WAY OF MANKIND TO DO THINGS and LIVE TO HAVE successful LONG abundent and PROPEROUS and happy FULFILLING LIVES?????? all that GO AGAINST GOD END UP UNHAPPY CONDEMNED DESEASED SICK DEJECTED HATED AND DISPISED BY ALL THAT ARE OF GOD ALMIGHTY BECAUSE THESE ARE UNCLEAN UNGODLY, HUMAN BEINGS THAT HAVE NOT REPENTED OF THEIR SIN OF DEPRAVITY AND REFUSE TO LISTEN TO THE WORD THAT IS GIVEN THEM> and CONTINUE IN THEIR SIN even after being TOLD what their sin is. BECAUSE THEY DENY THE VERY WORD and the messengers of THIS FATHER GOD HOLY SPIRIT FILLED THESE ONES THAT HAVE RECIEVED BELIEVED AND CONFESSED THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD THAT IS CALLED JESUS CHRIST > THAT HAS BEEN RISEN FROM THE DEAD, BY THE VERY HAND OF THE FATHER GOD ALMIGHTY. FOR THAT ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD JESUS THAT WAS BORN OF THAT VIRGIN BIRTH. ALREADY HAD IT WRITTEN OF HIMSELF . THAT HIS LIFE WAS NOT TAKEN BY ANYONE!!!!!!! HE GAVE HIS LIFE THAT ALL MEN MIGHT BE SET FREE FROM BEING A CAPTIVE. YET THERE ARE THOSE IN EVERY GENERATION THAT REFUSE TO BE SET FREE FROM THEIR SINS. BY TURNING FROM THEIR SINFUL ACTS OF SODOMY, PEDIPHILIA, THEIR DENIAL AND CONTINUEING IN THIS DENIAL OF THE WORD OF OUR LORD GOD ALMIGHTY THAT HE HAS ALREADY HAD WRITTEN FOR ALL TO LEARN FROM AND KNOW WHAT HIS WAY TO LIVE IS!!! WELL EVERY GENERATION SINCE TIME AND EARTH HAS BEN AND MANKIND HAS BEEN HAS HAD THOSE THAT DENIED THE TRUTH OF THE FATHER AND HIS WORD NOT JUST DENYING THOSE THAT COME WITH THAT TRUTH BUT DENYING THE VERY EVIDENCE THAT IS ALREADY PRESENT FOR AL TO KNOW AND SEE. IN DOING SO THEY DENY HIS VERY SPIRIT THAT HOLY SPIRIT THAT IS ALSO A REALITY AND PRESENCE TO BE SEEN AND KNOWN FOR THE WORD THAT GOD IS IS MANIFESTED TO EVERYONE EACH AND EVERY DAY WHEN HIS TRUTH THAT HE , THE LORD HAS HAD WRITTEN FOR US ALL IS SPOKEN< PREACHED AND GIVEN BY PEOPLE SUCH AS MYSELF, AND JOHN AND OTHERS THAT HAVE CONME IN HERE with the TRUTH OF THE HEAVENLY FATHER GOD LORD AND SAVIOR OF THE WORLD.

CHRISTIANS HAVE KNOWN FOR EONS THAT THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD IS WITHIN US> AS BEING CHILDREN BORN OF GOD BECAUSE WE HAVE BELIEVED BY FAITH IN THIS GOSPEL OF TRUTH AND WE AS CHRISTIANS WOULD NEVER GIVE UP OUR LIVES BY THE HANDS OF ANOTHER JUST FOR THE NAME OF JESUS IF WE DID NOT HAVE EVIDENCE WITHIN US AND KNOW WITHIN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS AND HAD THE EVIDENCE OF HIS REALITY AND TRUTH OF THE WORDS HE HAS SAID AND DOES DO EVEN TO THIS VERY DAY> THROUGH ALL THOSE THAT HAVE BELIEVED CONFESSED HIM AS BEING THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD , AND HIS PROMISE OF HIS BAPTISM IS TRUTH AND A EALITY FOR US ALL BECAUSE WE HAVE BELIEVED AND IT IS BY FAITH THAT WE LIVE AND IT IS BY THE GRACE AND MERCY AND LOVE OF THE FATHER GOD AND SAVIOR THAT WE DO LIVE TO TESTIFY OF THIS ONE CALLED JESUS THE LIVING CHRIST THAT ROSE AGAIN AND THIS DAY HE RULES AND REIGNS IN HEAVENLY PLACES and so it shall be forever and ever and NOTHING AND NONE WILL EVER CHANGE THIS TRUTH OF THIS GOSPEL OF THE CROSS . FOR the CROSS IS A STUMBLING BLOCK TO ALL THOSE CALLED JEWS AND IT IS FOOLISHNESS TO ALL THOISE THAT HAVE NOT BELIEVED BUT TO ALL OF US THAT ARE BEING SAVED>> IT IS LIFE AND POWER> FOR POWER IS IN THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST AND HIS TRUTH THAT THE LORD HATH HAD WRITTEN LONG BEFORE ANY OF US THAT ARE BREATHING AND HAVING LIFE THIS DAY WERE EVEN IN OUR MOTHERS WOMABS> FOR GOPD KNEW ME BEFORE I WAS IN MY MOTHERS WOMB AND WHETHER ANY HERE BELIEVES IT OR NOT THE SAME IS A TRUTH FOR ALL > FOR GOD ALMIGHTY IS THE GOD OF ABRAHAM , ISAAC, AND JACOB, and THIS TRUTH CANNOT EVER BE DENIED WHEN IT IS READ ABOUT SEEN FOR THE TRUTH THAT IS AND HAS ALREADY BEEN WRITTEN OF THESE THREE NAMES> AND IF YOUR NAME HAS NOT BEEN RECORDED IN THE LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE THEN THESE SHALL SUFFER THAT SECOND DEATH THAT IS WRITTEN OF. BUT FOR ALL THAT HAVE BELIEVED CONFESSED AND RECIEVED THIS GOSPEL . DO HAVE LIFE AND WILL HAVE LIFE AND DEATH IS OVERCOME AND IT NO LONGER HAS ANY STING.. FOR DEATH AND HADES and SATAN HAE BEEN DEFEATED BY THE VERY BLOOD OF THE LAMB OF GOD!!!!!!!!!!!

NOW anyone that CHOOSES TO DENY THIS GOSPEL THE ONLY BEGOTTENSON CALLED JESUS THE CHRIST THAT suffered has DIED and has been risen and lives within the hearts and minds of we whom have and do believe BY FAITH IN THIAT CROSS GOSPEL AND LORD AND BLOOD COVENANT THAT WAS MADE HAS BEEN MADE AND IS EVIDENT WITHIN EVEN YOU BECAUSE YOU DO LIVE AND HAVE THIS LIFE THIS DAY!!!!! then GO AHEAD DENY THE VERY EVIDENCE THAT HAS BEEN GIVEN TO YOU THIS DAY!!!!!!!!! FOR THIS TO HAS ALREADY BEEN WRITTEN SAID PREACHED AND TOLD . and I SAY IOT AGAIN!!
THUS SAYETH THE LORD;
"TODAY!!!!!! I call HEAVEN AND EARTH TO WITNESS AGAINST YOU, THAT YOU, THAT I HAVE SET BEFORE YOU LIFE AND DEATH BLESSING AND CURSING; THEREFORE CHOOSE LIFE, FOR YOU AND YOUR DESCENDANTS. MAY LIVE. THAT THOU MAY LOVE THY GOD AND THAT YOU OBEY HIS VOICE."

IF ANY IN HERE DO NOT BELIEVE IN WHAT HAS BEEN WRITTEN ABOVE. THEN GO AHEAD AND DENY ALL THAT I ASA WITNESS UNTO YOU THIS DAY. KNOWING HIS LOVE, HIS MERCY, HIS POWER , and HIS COVENANT HE HAS GIVEN FOR ME AND ALL . THEN BY ALL MEANS . DENY ME , THE WORD I HAVE GIVEN YOU THIS DAY. BUT REMEMBER THIS MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS ALL THAT DENY THE WORD OF WE WHOM HAVE BELIEVED DO LIVE BY THAT VER FAITH IN THIS GOSPEL WE COME TELLING OF ANF WE HAVE READ LEARNED OF AND NOW TELL YOU THIS DAY OF THIS TRUTH OF THIS JESIUS CHRIST AND HIS PROMISE IS GIVEN TO US WHOM COME ALSO TODAY GIVING YOU HIS TRUTH THROUGH THAT VERY SPIRIT BAPTISM THAT WAS WRITTEN OF PROPHECIED BY JOHN THE BAPTIST AND IS EVIDENT WITHIN WE OF FAITH BELIEF AND OUR CONFESSION BEING A TESTIMENT TO AND OF HIS REALITY AND TRUTH WITHIN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS AND EVEN BY THE WORDS WE SPEAK> AND THE WAY WE LIVE> THEN BY ALL MEANS DENY THE LORD GOD FATHER AND GOD OF ABRAHAM , ISAAC, and JACOB, JUST AS IT HAS ALREADY BEEN WRITTEN PREACHED TOLD AND IS EVIDENT BEFORE YOU THIS DAY AND BY SO DOING YOU WILL BE ALSO DENYING THE VERY HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD AND THE PROMISE THAT IS GIVEN TO ANY AND WOSOEVER WILL BELIEVE IN THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD AND WE CALL HIM LESUS CHRIST OUR LORD. AND HE IS THE ONLY WAY! THE ONLY LIGHT THAT CAME< DIED< WAS BURIED< AND IS RISEN AND LIVES AND REIGNS HAVING BEEN GIVEN ALL AUTHORITY IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH ; MATTHEW 28;18:, MALACHI. 3;16:, ISAIAH, 9; 6:-7:, Luke 1;, John 1;29:-34:, John 14:, John 16: , and there are many more to read and understand of this truth I have brought to you this day . ALL UNBELIEVERS HAVE A CHOICE IN HERE THIS DAY >FOR TOMORROW YOU MAY NOT HAVE A CHIOICE TO MAKE because YOU WILL ALREADY HAVE DIED before another DAWNING BREAKS UPON THE HORIZEN OF THIS EARTH THAT GOD ALMIGHTY YOUR CREATOR HAS N MADE CREATED .. I SUGEST YOU do NOT MISS THE OPPORTUNITY THAT JHA been afforded you this day and CHOOSE HIM HIS TRUTH OF HIS WORD THAT HJAS CONME THROUGH JUST ONE OF HIS HOSTS THIS DAY!!!!! I ASK IT OF MY HEAVENLY FATHER IN HEAVEN THIS DAY IN JESUS NAME I PRAY THAT MANY HAVE EARS TO HEAR AND A OPEN DOOR TO ALLOW YOU IN LORD > THIS DAY > AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

While I don't want to be too egregiously off-topic, since 1John has brought it up, I will also note that he also presented an untrue statement here, in post #6

Ahhhh no you don't. Liberals or anyone that think Jesus is a myth and claim to be Christians are wrong, and when they assert their position as valid, they are liars.

Here is my post:

From liberals that claim that they are Christians:

Quote:
A Bishop Speaks
John Shelby Spong

The Right Man for a New World
The new Archbishop of Canterbury must get rid of the Jesus who "died for our sins."

In late February the Church of England, the mother church of Anglicanism, will install a new leader. He is an interesting man and, in my opinion, the best of all possible choices to head the third largest group of Christians in the world. His name is Rowan Williams.

In many ways it was a daring appointment, and in this choice the entire Anglican Communion, of which the Episcopal Church in the United States is a part, has decided to join the modern world. It represented a specific decision to reverse the dreadful and misguided reign of his predecessor, George Carey. Carey had positioned Anglicanism in the right-wing evangelical camp of Bible quoters.

Rowan Williams is only 52 and could serve in this position for almost two decades, giving him time to put his stamp upon the Church. He is a product of England's middle-class who has developed his intellectual skills at both Oxford and Cambridge. He was a theology professor at Oxford prior to being elected a bishop in Wales only a few years ago. Shortly thereafter his fellow bishops in Wales chose him to head the entire Anglican Church in Wales.

Williams has the academic skills to engage changing ideas in our culture. One hopes he will use these gifts to hammer out a Christianity that is both relevant and believable. Christianity desperately needs to escape the language of antiquity that has portrayed sacrifice and shed blood as signs of salvation.

The Jesus who "died for our sins" has simply got to go in our post-Darwinian world. Christianity must move beyond a rescuing Jesus, who overcame a fall that never happened, even metaphorically, to restore human life to a status it has never had, even mythologically. Williams' task is nothing less than to articulate a new Christianity for a new world.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/119/story_11975_1.html


The club-members of liberals all chant their approval of this completely anti-Christ declaration. It is liberal theology. It is Satanic. Biblically speaking.

Coulter, like some other people, are waking up to the lies of false believers. She just has the guts and position to do something to them.

Subsequently, he did make a gracious admission that this was the case, in the second non-quoted paragraph of post 11.

Uh uh. I said it was fair for anti-Christians to call me a liar. And heck, they get a free pass to do so with impugnity here. And here is my post:

Quote:
1John wrote:
Why would a liberal claim to be a Christian when their preaching, statements, beliefs and actions are contradicted by the Gospels and the letters of the New Testament?


This question for debate makes the unfounded assumption that liberal beliefs are in general contradicted by the NT. There have already been examples provided showing this not to be the case. It seems to me the question should be split into two questions:

Are liberal beliefs contrary to the NT? IF so, which particular beliefs are contradictory to the NT?

Assuming a self-identified liberal holds views contrary to the NT, why would said person also self-identify as a CHristian?

In reference to quotes made by Bishop Spong:

1John wrote:
The club-members of liberals all chant their approval of this completely anti-Christ declaration.

I bolded the all.

Lacking any evidence that all liberal Christians believe as Bishop Spong does, and having numerous examples of self-identified liberal Christians who do not share Spong's view, even here on this forum, this statement deserves to be called what it is, a lie.

A carnation, if it could speak, could call itself a rose, to make the roses it kicks it with feel good, but, the carnation, sonner or later would need to be told it is a carnation.

Carnations can be sprayed any color. HOWEVER a TRUE ROSE doesn't need to be SPRAYED. and Maintains TRUE COLOR and BEAUTY. SO AS IT HAS been SAID A ROSE is a ROSE is a ROSE.

Fair enough you calling my post a lie, but the "clubmembers" of which I write, you and the "clubmembers," (that I have listed so many times) know very well, agree with Spong that Jesus is myth. The infidels.orgers.

Hank Hanigraf says that heresy usually begings with the wrong idea of the nature of God. (Or something along that line.) Sometimes it is just plain old satanic deception. Notice I always call for my adversaries to test what I write.

For me a my house; we will serve the Lord. The real One.

Liberals are free to serve whatever thet want to create, but not without challenge when they venture beyond their walls, and look for new members. Sound orthodox believers have been hammered by liberals for far too long. It is time to turn truth towards their false witness. They will not last long in that realm.

Spong, as an example, needs to be put into his place as a heretic and liar, not because of politics, but because that is what he is. I do not see that happening from his camp in the "liberal" Anglican voice. They seem quite OK with his satanic presentation of Christ Jesus. That is, after you test his doctrine.

I'm cool with being charged a liar, because it can only lead to search and research into truth. On that I rest quite securely with no worry. At all. My vindication, already waiting for the turn of a page in the New Testament, makes the charge of deception as false as the Jesus is myth lies.

Test away.

I admitted no lie, or lying on my part. In fact Spong's views are echoed loudly here on D,C and R. (.com).

We also had a whole thread devoted to the statement that humanism and evolution are the same or in the mathematical shorth and'humanism = evolution'.

One just needs to read the Humanist Manifesto II.

So:

SECOND: Promises of immortal salvation or fear of eternal damnation are both illusory and harmful. They distract humans from present concerns, from self-actualization, and from rectifying social injustices. Modern science discredits such historic concepts as the "ghost in the machine" and the "separable soul." Rather, science affirms that the human species is an emergence from natural evolutionary forces. As far as we know, the total personality is a function of the biological organism transacting in a social and cultural context. There is no credible evidence that life survives the death of the body. We continue to exist in our progeny and in the way that our lives have influenced others in our culture.

Humanist Manifesto II
-- Preface --

It is forty years since Humanist Manifesto I (1933) appeared. Events since then make that earlier statement seem far too optimistic. Nazism has shown the depths of brutality of which humanity is capable. Other totalitarian regimes have suppressed human rights without ending poverty. Science has sometimes brought evil as well as good. Recent decades have shown that inhuman wars can be made in the name of peace. The beginnings of police states, even in democratic societies, widespread government espionage, and other abuses of power by military, political, and industrial elites, and the continuance of unyielding racism, all present a different and difficult social outlook. In various societies, the demands of women and minority groups for equal rights effectively challenge our generation.

As we approach the twenty-first century, however, an affirmative and hopeful vision is needed. Faith, commensurate with advancing knowledge, is also necessary. In the choice between despair and hope, humanists respond in this Humanist Manifesto II with a positive declaration for times of uncertainty.

I don't see how this statement can be taken as anything other than untrue, using any standard definitions of these two words. Certainly those posting in that thread all felt this was obviously an untrue statement, and though motivated by specific instances of 1John making this claim, he did not visit the thread.

My fame and influence (as seen in the inspiration of yet another thread) cause me to be too busy for all of my appearances. Really. I do know that I am not omnipresent. (I'm not lying.)

At any rate, I would encourage all, in order to determine which statements are true or not when it is possible to do so, to define one's terms, present evidence, and use logic and reasoning.

After re-reading the Humanist Manifesto II, I'll be thinking about dropping all of the labels for anti-Christians, such as: liberal, atheist, progressive, gay, lesbian, etc., etc., etc., etc., at al . . . and just use "Humanist." Since they all dance to the Humanist piper.

Some statements, of course, are not 'truth statements' but matters of opinion, values, etc., and so are not amenable to us determing there absolute truth or falsity.

And some are just doggone fact.

[Scrotum]

This is just ridiculous. We have shown time and time again that John is wrong, he seem to use BigChristianfilms selective-reading-tactic, and simple ignore everything said. Just some standard points he never addresses:

1. The GAG is after Christians, and Christianity is being illegalized. (Johns own statements)

Lets see, the MAJORITY of Homosexuals in United States (The U.S is the only country being addressed here by John) are all Christians. Only a very small minority is Atheist, or other Theistic beliefs.

There are no laws against Christianity as John have claimed, and so far John has not given any examples of it either. But, as a reference, Homosexuality have been illegal historically, so its interesting he claims the opposite, as its the Homosexuals which whom witch-hunt has been applied during decades.

2. Homosexualiy is unnatural (hence lack of Moral) as anal and oral sex is no part of procreation (Stated by John).

This is a rather nice golden nugget, as several have addressed and point out, that this philosophy makes almost EVERYTHING in todays society is unnatural (hence, lack of Moral).

John refuses to address this for obvious reasons, as he himself uses Socks, Computers, probably drives a car, and most likely kisses his wife, if he is married.



Will John ever actually comment on his own hypocrisy *dam dam daaa*, We will never know, as he will continue this futile debate avoiding any answers given, or questions offered.

[Cathar1950]

Suzanne would you please not double post?
It is bad enough that we have to read your stuff from pamphlets you picked up at the bus stops and street corners in capital letters.
Now I can't even figure out where we were. Or what the post is about. Oh yes the anti-gay agenda.
john:

Ahhhh no you don't. Liberals or anyone that think Jesus is a myth and claim to be Christians are wrong, and when they assert their position as valid, they are liars.

I can see where you don't understand myth. Even if Jesus and the gospels were historical figures they are still mythical.

john:

My fame and influence (as seen in the inspiration of yet another thread) cause me to be too busy for all of my appearances. Really. I do know that I am not omnipresent. (I'm not lying.)

I don't know if you are lying or just delusional and I do question your mental presents. But I think infamous would be a better word.

Obviously I am not alone in believing that humanists are criminalizing Christians. This amazing Pope (Benedict) is not afraid to challenge those that are lying when they push relativism, as some kind of civil rights issue.

I am always amazed to hear on TV by evangelicals the praises of the Pope. They even call him "his Holiness". The American religion is truly becoming a completely ahistorical, charismatic, emotional club where even Protestants sell out.

Biblical "family" and "marriage: and "morality" are seen only as hateful to liberals, humanists, gays and lesbians and other anti-Christians. The anti-gay agenda was written and canonized in the Bible long ago.

That is simply not true.

john:

It seems that you and most of the anti-Christians here seem to understand me quite well.

How true yet misunderstood by you.
Me:

I am off to the caf.

john:

How cliche.

Do you mean clich? I don't get it. That is where I was going and I had lunch.

[1John2_26]

All of those ad hominem posts directed at little ol' 1 John_2_26. It's like hearing lemmings chattering as they march on.

1 John 2:26

I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.

How many children are targeted by the Gay Agenda . . . legally in schools.

Funny what historical happenings you can find on the web, still. Please note, you cannot substitute "Christianity" for celebrating "homosexuality," because it is illegal to do so.

HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA ESCALATES IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS

http://www.newswithviews.com/public_sch ... hools1.htm

By Linda P. Harvey
July 15, 2001
NewsWithViews.com

Pink triangles in classrooms. Grade school studies of "gay" history. Transvestite speakers. School-wide events to celebrate homosexuality. Student activists spreading propaganda through school publications. Legislation mandating homosexual indoctrination.

This was the school year 2000-2001. What will our neighborhood schools be doing this fall to support the relentless agenda of homosexual activists?

In the Massachusetts town of Newton, home of homosexual congressman Barney Frank, a high school history teacher taught that Alexander the Great was a "gay" man. Other teachers in Massachusetts are building lessons around the Stonewall Inn riots in Greenwich Village in 1969, an event credited by homosexual activists with kicking off the "gay rights" movement.1 In a third grade music class in a Massachusetts town, the male teacher told the children Tchiakovsky was a homosexual, and that society's "homophobia" prompted his suicide.

Newton North High School sponsored a special "To Be Gay" day, complete with inaccurate brochures heavily promoting transgendered behaviors (cross-dressing, having surgery to alter one's biological sex, etc.).2

All of this is taking place in a state where 156 schools host homosexual clubs, called "gay-straight alliances" by advocates.3 Such clubs are provided seed money by a state program to "support" students practicing homosexual behavior. Nationally, GLSEN has said there are over 800 such clubs. GLSEN, the Gay Lesbian and Straight Education Network, was founded in Massachusetts in the early 1990s by a male teacher engaged in homosexual activity.

In California, meanwhile, a week this past April at Santa Rosa High School was devoted to "Days of Diversity." Skits promoted homosexual and heterosexual promiscuous sex. One skit derided the Bible by implication, when a student actor who believed in a special "book" that she reads on Sunday, said that this book gave her permission to "hate." Parents were not fully informed about the contents of the workshops, and many feel they were deceived.

Younger children in another Marin County school saw a performance troupe called "Cootie Shots," whose skits depict families consisting of two mommies and two daddies. This group gains entry to schools by saying it offers programs on "tolerance and diversity." But their version of diversity is really cleverly packaged deviance. In one of the group's skits, the fairy-tale character Rapunzel cuts off her long hair and runs away with her girlfriend.4

The high school students also presented skits dealing with sexual molestation, rape, anorexia and suicide. Other workshops during this diversity week advocated radical environmentalism, socialism and animal rights.5 Some parents who had submitted the "opt-out" forms provided through California pro-family organizations had children who still attended the events. Legal action is being pursued by some of these parents against the school.6

Silencing Opponents, Not Tolerance, Is the Goal

And California faces even more problems if current legislation passes. After the passage of state law last session mandating diversity field trips and other pro-homosexual school activity, this session's legislature is considering SB. 225, which would require that schools with interscholastic sports teams adopt non-discrimination codes supporting "sexual orientation" as well as "perceived gender," or risk being banned from the California Interscholastic Federation. This reaches into the private school sector, which of course has been the goal of the activists all along. Nothing will satisfy until all of society is supportive of homosexuality. A second bill, SB 257, would force schools to target speech that opposes homosexuality as being discriminatory and equivalent to harassment.7

It's not just the liberal northeast and the "left coast" of California where these atrocities are being forced on children. At a high school near St. Paul, Minnesota, 16-year old Elliott Chambers was suspended when he wore a sweatshirt to school last January that said "Straight Pride" on the front. On the back was a sketch of a man and woman holding hands. Some students complained to the principal that they were offended.

Elliot says he had no idea the shirt would cause such an uproar. He had ordered it from a web site (straightpride.com) after someone had seen it at a political rally in the fall. He just thought it was "cool." After months of pro-homosexual indoctrination in his high school, he had quietly developed a dislike for the climate of bias.

"In our school, there are 50 regular classrooms that have been marked with pink triangles as 'safe' zones," Elliott says. The "safe zone" signate lists the name of a teacher as a resource. The idea is that students who have questions about their sexuality can go to this teacher "safely" -- in other words, knowing the teacher will be uncritical, even supportive of homosexuality. The procedure is that these teachers then refer the questioning student to a pro-homosexual counselor outside the school or an activist group like PFLAG, Elliott told us. This all happens without parental notification or consent.

But the atmosphere doesn't end with promotion, but also includes intimidation. Some Woodbury students have been given detentions if they use the phrase, "That's so gay," as an expression of distaste.

Yet teachers are free to express strong opinions as they wish, especially about Christianity. After a "holiday" concert at the school last Christmas season, one female math teacher opened a discussion about the song content, which was dominated by Christian songs. "Didn't you feel discriminated against?" she pointedly asked one Muslim girl.

Apparently, the school board of Woodbury High School as well as the PTA knew nothing about the pink triangles until the publicity surrounding Elliott's case. The "safe zone" program was an idea implemented by a male librarian along with the principal. After the case surfaced, the triangles were modified to add symbols to racial and religious equality as well as equality for those with disabilities.

Elliott's parents, Lena and Kendal Chambers, have sued the school district for its stubborn stance. In a preliminary injunction in May, a U.S. District court judge ruled in favor of the Chambers, saying there is "a strong likelihood" that the principal infringed upon Elliott's constitutional rights.8

Yet it could be worse. There are as yet no openly "gay" teachers at the school who might pose a risk to students as poor role models, or worse -- the threat of sexual molestation. People who profess a homosexual preference are much more likely to molest children and adolescents, especially males.9 A Newton, Massachusetts parent told us that at his child's elementary school, all five of the male teachers are openly homosexual. He believes this shows a clear preference in hiring.

There are, meanwhile, at schools throughout the country, student activists co-opting school publications to disseminate the myths of homosexual advocacy. They use the budding journalist's pen to claim it's an issue of "enlightenment and education" and a civil rights matter rather than well-documented unsafe behavior. At Upper Arlington High School in Columbus in April, students devoted ten pages of a slick magazine to an inaccurate and one-sided promotion of homosexuality. The advocacy was laced with the usual claims of "prejudice and ignorance" by conservatives. It also inaccurately portrayed the work of the ex-gay ministry Exodus International. (For more detail, see the May-June-July 2001 issue of Choice 4 Truth.)

An entire column also promoted a Columbus community "support" group for "gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered" youth under 21. This group meets in a homosexual church, and even young teens can attend without parental notification or consent. Such groups exist throughout the country in most metropolitan areas, posing a high risk to children who can interact, socialize and be lured into sexual episodes by the older teens and adults who operate such groups.

Sexual Anarchy, Not Homosexuality, Is the Reality

An ethic of sexual anarchy with homosexuality as its lead issue is being deliberately sold to our youth under the guise of "safety" and "tolerance." Meanwhile, young people's lives and emotional stability are endangered if they make a decision in these tender years to engage in homosexual activity -- or are seduced into such acts by a teacher, coach, or older peer. As we have repeatedly said, there is no evidence of a genetic connection for homosexual desires, and a wealth of evidence that such feelings arise from emotional instability, often fueled by the confused legacy of sexual abuse. The thousands of ex-homosexuals testify to the fact that homosexual feelings can be changed, and it is a betrayal of our children not to let them know about this hope. Yet many schools now are being told by activist groups, including the ACLU and teacher organizations, that they must not encourage heterosexuality instead of homosexuality when counseling troubled or questioning kids.

The "gay" -friendly educational system continues to open its doors to groups like GLSEN and PFLAG, who have been aided by substantial funding boosts in recent years. Many concerned parents are removing their children from the public schools. But others, equally concerned, either do not have the option because of family circumstances, or have no clear educational alternative for their children. And, should we abandon the schools anyway? (ed. note: Absolutely! The sooner the better.)

Turning our backs on the culture and retreating into conservative or religious enclaves is what got us into this mess to begin with. Let's contact our local schools, find out what's going on, and join with other concerned citizens to make some changes this next school year.

Sources:

1. "More school lessons tackling gay issues," Boston Glove, July 7, 2001

2. Brochures from Newton North Gay/Straight Alliance.

3. Globe, as above

4. "(Gay) school days," Citizen magazine from Focus on the Family, July 2001

5. The Lively Letter from Scott Lively, Abiding Truth Ministries, Citrus Heights, CA, May 1, 2001

6. www.cnsnews.com, April 23, 2001

7. Information from Campaign for California Families, www.savecalifornia.com (916) 443--1410

8. "AFA law center wins first round in 'straight pride' case," AFA Journal, American Family Association, July 2001

9. Most cases of sexual abuse of children and adolescents involve boys being assaulted by men. This is by definition 'homosexual' since it involves same sex sexual abuse. For 57 pages of documentation about sexual abuse involving homosexuality, see the excellent web site, www.cprmd.org

2001 - Linda P. Harvey - All Rights Reserved