What is wrong with abortion?

arunangelo · Post by **arunangelo** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:31 pm

What is wrong with abortion?

Those who exercise true love respect all human beings irrespective of their appearance or size. They, therefore, recognize the humanity of a one cell stage human being by recognizing that it is an independent life form with human genes; and has a human life force within it that initiates, directs and sustains a process to take that person through successive stages of development (over many years) to transform that person from a single cell individual to a fully grown human being with 10 trillion cells, multiple complex systems and a brain with a memory capacity equal to 20,000 computers. They, therefore see destruction of human beings in the embryonic and fetal stage as murder. They also see such an act as gross violation of human rights because it denies the victim from reaching his/her full human potential.

VermilionUK · Post by **VermilionUK** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:41 am

nygreenguy wrote:Calling a fetus a human or a person is like calling a seed a tree. Sure, it has the potential to become a tree someday, but no one in their right mind would call it a tree.

Completely agree.

Pastor4Jesus · Post by **Pastor4Jesus** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:59 am

VermilionUK wrote:
nygreenguy wrote:Calling a fetus a human or a person is like calling a seed a tree. Sure, it has the potential to become a tree someday, but no one in their right mind would call it a tree.
Completely agree.

That is what is so abhorrent to Christians. It's the disregard for human life that abortion proponents hold.

Human life is precious to Christians. Others who kill for convenience rationalize abortion to be a medical procedure instead of a what most Christians consider a murder. They do so because most are good moral people and can not face the truth. However ignorance of the (Gods) law is no excuse.

We do not know when the baby is aware we do know it dreams in the womb, we know it will grow to be a child if not destroyed. I think we should err on the side of caution most of the time, allow life, don't snuff out a human life, don't make the unborn child pay for their parents stupidity.

P4JC

handofnergal · Post by **handofnergal** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:11 am

Pastor4Jesus wrote:
VermilionUK wrote:
nygreenguy wrote:Calling a fetus a human or a person is like calling a seed a tree. Sure, it has the potential to become a tree someday, but no one in their right mind would call it a tree.
Completely agree.
That is what is so abhorrent to Christians. It's the disregard for human life that abortion proponents hold.

Human life is precious to Christians. Others who kill for convenience rationalize their way out of it. We do not know when the baby is aware we do know it dreams in the womb, we know it will grow to be a child if not destroyed. I think we should err on the side of caution most of the time, allow life, don't snuff out a human life, don't make the unborn child pay for their parents stupidity.

P4JC

Disregard for human life? Have you not read my post where I briefly mentioned ectopic pregnancies? Which would result in the death of both fetus and mother? I guess we should forget about the mother in that case and let them both die because abortion is so bad.

Has it crossed your mind that human life may be precious to non-Christians as well? I completely agree that those who kill rationalize it, just like the Christians who kill abortion doctors. And what makes you think that terminating a fetus from rape and incest cases is convenient? They didnt ask to become pregnant.

What you really want to say is that you don't give a damn about women, for some reason you think all people who have abortions are idiots, and have the arrogance to think you know what other people should do with their own bodies.

Pastor4Jesus · Post by **Pastor4Jesus** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:24 am

handofnergal wrote: Disregard for human life? Have you not read my post where I briefly mentioned ectopic pregnancies? Which would result in the death of both fetus and mother? I guess we should forget about the mother in that case and let them both die because abortion is so bad.

Perhaps you haven't read my posts where I say I am undecided on abortion for the health of the mother etc. Look up convenience. If someone chooses abortion for those reasons God will pass judgment pro or con I have no comment on the subject.

Has it crossed your mind that human life may be precious to non-Christians as well? I completely agree that those who kill rationalize it, just like the Christians who kill abortion doctors. And what makes you think that terminating a fetus from rape and incest cases is convenient? They didn't ask to become pregnant.

What makes you think abortion of convenience includes rape etc. I doubt that very many abortions are done for those reasons. You see your bias is showing, better fix that.

What you really want to say is that you don't give a damn about women, for some reason you think all people who have abortions are idiots

Again you are espousing what you like to think we are like, it has no basis in fact.

and have the arrogance to think you know what other people should do with their own bodies.

I have the arrogance to have the right to voice my opinion and do everything I can (including civil disobedience but not causing physical harm to anyone) to stop the killing of human life. Your biased assumptions indicate a dangerous tendency I would hope its a mistake (maybe you are just disturbed this morning) on my part.

P4JC

handofnergal · Post by **handofnergal** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:43 am

Pastor4Jesus wrote:
VermilionUK wrote:
nygreenguy wrote:Calling a fetus a human or a person is like calling a seed a tree. Sure, it has the potential to become a tree someday, but no one in their right mind would call it a tree.
Completely agree.
That is what is so abhorrent to Christians. It's the disregard for human life that abortion proponents hold.

Human life is precious to Christians. Others who kill for convenience rationalize abortion to be a medical procedure instead of a what most Christians consider a murder. They do so because most are good moral people and can not face the truth. However ignorance of the (Gods) law is no excuse.

We do not know when the baby is aware we do know it dreams in the womb, we know it will grow to be a child if not destroyed. I think we should err on the side of caution most of the time, allow life, don't snuff out a human life, don't make the unborn child pay for their parents stupidity.

P4JC

what I got from your post

1)Abortion proponents have a disregard for human life
2)Abortion is murder rather than a medical procedure
3)Abortion constitutes stupidity on the part of the parents

Who is the one flingind wild accusations here?

You're right, any morning when someone posts something like that its a bad morning for me.

Pastor4Jesus · Post by **Pastor4Jesus** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:18 am

handofnergal wrote:what I got from your post

1)Abortion proponents have a disregard for human life
2)Abortion is murder rather than a medical procedure
3)Abortion constitutes stupidity on the part of the parents

Who is the one flingind wild accusations here?

You're right, any morning when someone posts something like that its a bad morning for me.

#1. They do when it comes to abortion. I have no way of knowing about other human life like offing granny when she gets old and wobbly.

#2. My personal opinion it is. Of course when someone is doing the cutting and vacuuming out of the womb they have to rationalize otherwise. I think that most abortion docs have rationalized themselves into the denial that its not murder and I believe that a handful don't care about anything except for a dollar.

# 3. In some cases yes. However it does constitute an laziness and irresponsibility beyond (my) human understanding to how the parents can rationalize killing the unborn just because they don't want it. You don't believe in Satan so it shouldn't make you angry when I say I think that some of those people are satanically possessed. It wouldn't surprise me if their heads spun around and they shot out a vomit rocket.

I think you are Ok and most likely a good moral person in theory. In practice if you would agree to be a part of an abortion I would say you were immoral even if you made that decision by satanic influence, or were influenced by abortion proponents, well meaning or otherwise.

P4JC

handofnergal · Post by **handofnergal** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:54 pm

Yes or no questions---

Is abortion okay in cases of:

1)Rape

2)Incest

3)Cases where either the mother, or the fetus, or both will die?

Bear in mind that it is possible to have a scenario with all three.

It's important for me to hear your answers, yes or no please. I don't want a maybe or any secondary qualifiers or anything. I wanna see which one of us is truly moral and which one of us only claims to be.

arunangelo · Post by **arunangelo** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:09 pm

handofnergal wrote:Yes or no questions---

Is abortion okay in cases of:

1)Rape

2)Incest

3)Cases where either the mother, or the fetus, or both will die?

Bear in mind that it is possible to have a scenario with all three.

It's important for me to hear your answers, yes or no please. I don't want a maybe or any secondary qualifiers or anything. I wanna see which one of us is truly moral and which one of us only claims to be.

Abortion is never justified. In case where mother's or baby's life is in danger attempt must be made to save both.

handofnergal · Post by **handofnergal** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:08 am

arunangelo wrote:
handofnergal wrote:Yes or no questions---

Is abortion okay in cases of:

1)Rape

2)Incest

3)Cases where either the mother, or the fetus, or both will die?

Bear in mind that it is possible to have a scenario with all three.

It's important for me to hear your answers, yes or no please. I don't want a maybe or any secondary qualifiers or anything. I wanna see which one of us is truly moral and which one of us only claims to be.
Abortion is never justified. In case where mother's or baby's life is in danger attempt must be made to save both.

You would actually tell a 12 year old girl who's been raped by her own father that she has to keep and raise the child? You are sick. And BTW before abortion was made into a legal medical practice women were paying black market doctors to do or doing it themselves with coat hangars.

Abortion is a medical practice and it saves lives all the time. Your perspectives would be different if you were men and weren't being brainwashed by the religious right.

You claim to be such moral people and yet I'm more moral than either of you or anybody in your good book, including your Jeebus.

VermilionUK · Post by **VermilionUK** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:34 am

handofnergal wrote:Yes or no questions---

Is abortion okay in cases of:

1)Rape

2)Incest

3)Cases where either the mother, or the fetus, or both will die?

Bear in mind that it is possible to have a scenario with all three.

It's important for me to hear your answers, yes or no please. I don't want a maybe or any secondary qualifiers or anything. I wanna see which one of us is truly moral and which one of us only claims to be.

That is a good question. I suspect most Christians would still not want the mother to have an abortion, even in the scenario you brought up. The trouble is if it were to happen to one of their family members - I'd think a lot of opinions would change, or at least I'd hope opinions would change.

In the scenario you brought up, I think it's obvious that the potential mother should be allowed an abortion. We have to consider the trauma that she would have gone through - and the added trauma of giving birth to a child concieved from rape/incest.

I think it shows overwhelming arrogance to say "No, you can't have an abortion, because according to my religious beliefs you shouldn't have one."

These people need to wake up to the world we live in; conception isn't always the result of a loving relationship. In the case of rape/incest victims - religious beliefs should always come last when considering abortion.