God of the gaps for atheists

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God of the gaps for atheists

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

Recently I wrote:
You know, a lot of atheist talk is like a lifelong prisoner no longer believing there is anything outside the prison cell. Religion or not I just don't think it is justifiable. I do think it is a worldview and when I point it out atheists tend to get very offended (as if I attacked a sacred belief).
This is a discussion of what this means and if it is valid claim.

We know the sun rises and sets every day, day in and day out. Assuming only common sense knowledge you would be right to assume that it will always be the case.

Similarly for death. Assuming common sense knowledge you would be right to assume death is the end of life.

But then someone shows that the sun is a ball of energy and is burning up and you realise that one day the sun will not rise (or set). That it is simply a habit of life that you assumed was normal.

To date, the atheist believes death is the end, because of the same reasoning. As soon as someone rises from the dead that satisfies their burden of proof then they will change their view.

But this has two philosophical issues.

1) Humes problem of induction
https://beisecker.faculty.unlv.edu/Cour ... uction.htm

2) The god of the gaps fallacy
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

From rational wiki: God of the gaps (or a divine fallacy) is a logical fallacy that occurs when believers invoke Goddidit (or a variant) in order to account for some natural phenomena that science cannot (at the time of the argument) explain. This concept resembles what systems theorists[1] refer to as an "explanatory principle".[2] "God of the gaps" is a bad argument not only on logical grounds, but on empirical grounds: there is a long history of "gaps" being filled and the remaining gaps for God thus getting smaller and smaller, suggesting "we don't know yet" as an alternative that works better in practice; naturalistic explanations for still-mysterious phenomena always remain possible, especially in the future where research may uncover more information.[3]
In the end the atheist claims about death are simply a gap and they are quick to fill it with nothing. That nothing happens after death.

So back to my quote.

If you were born inside a locked room and given food and water and air and whatever to survive through a hole then it is possible you might never wonder what is outside the room. That room just happens to be he universe and death is the border to what might be beyond.

Responses please :)
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #31

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Wootah wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:54 pm Believe it or not, what you see when someone dies is exactly what I expect to see for each of us as we face the choice we made, in the beginning, to die in our sins or live under God's grace.
The difficulty here is the complete inability to show God has a thinker.
Or that he thinks something is sinful.
Or that he has whatever you mean by "grace".

It's purely speculation.
I see the ageing process as a kind of 'sin calcification'. Christians get more excited as we age because the effects of sin (wages of sin is death) get more and more obvious and undeniable. Interestingly I see many non-Christians experience death as a kind of mercy from this process in the same way that I do. Both views want release from the slavery of death.
I don't think I hear tell of slavery near as much, as when it's Christians carrying on about it. I feel no more a 'slave' to death than I feel a 'slave' to gods that can't be shown to exist.
What I am suggesting is that it is merely an opinion formed from a worldview as to what death means to you. You have no actual evidence that it is the end.
Nor do you have evidence this god you're so proud of deems him something sinful, or to have him a speck of grace.
I do think there is a lot of philosophical validity in the story of the two babies in the womb. https://matthewwarner.me/story-of-two-babies
Philosophy is in a different section of this site.
We have more evidence in life that ends are not the end. The end of birth is the first stage of life in the world,...
An even earlier stage of life is atoms coming together to produce the stuff that makes it up.
...the end of a study is the beginning of a job,...
I've studied various topics my entire life, whether pertinent to a job or not.

It's the end of study I fret.
...the end of youth is the beginning of being a man and woman.
Youth is a subjective perception. I've met me many a youthful man or woman.
Actually very few ends apart from death are the end and yet we have all this experience of ends being new beginnings and still choose to think death is the end. Pretty bizarre.
What I find bizarre is folks thinking a god they can't show exists holds opinions and attributes they can't show he does.
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #32

Post by Athetotheist »

brunumb wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:09 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:09 pm What's "a magic thing up in the sky"?

A straw man?
I suppose the answer is yes, if one equates God with a straw man. :)
Step away from an anthropomorphic form and think of the underlying source of all else which exists and you'll be closer to what we're talking about.

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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #33

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Athetotheist wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:16 pm
brunumb wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:09 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:09 pm What's "a magic thing up in the sky"?
A straw man?
I suppose the answer is yes, if one equates God with a straw man. :)
Step away from an anthropomorphic form and think of the underlying source of all else which exists and you'll be closer to what we're talking about.
How bout just telling us what you're getting at, some of us are dim of wit.
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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #34

Post by Athetotheist »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:43 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:16 pm
brunumb wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:09 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:09 pm What's "a magic thing up in the sky"?
A straw man?
I suppose the answer is yes, if one equates God with a straw man. :)
Step away from an anthropomorphic form and think of the underlying source of all else which exists and you'll be closer to what we're talking about.
How bout just telling us what you're getting at, some of us are dim of wit.
You're not that dim of wit. For a general definition of God, "the underlying source of all else which exists" is what I'm getting at.

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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #35

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Athetotheist wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:03 pm For a general definition of God, "the underlying source of all else which exists" is what I'm getting at.
You'll pull hens teeth before ya put truth to that'n.
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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #36

Post by otseng »

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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #37

Post by Athetotheist »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:02 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:03 pm For a general definition of God, "the underlying source of all else which exists" is what I'm getting at.
You'll pull hens teeth before ya put truth to that'n.
I like to think that I myself am not that "dim of wit", but would you do me the courtesy of enlightening me on just what exactly that's supposed to mean?

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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #38

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Athetotheist wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:07 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:02 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:03 pm For a general definition of God, "the underlying source of all else which exists" is what I'm getting at.
You'll pull hens teeth before ya put truth to that'n.
I like to think that I myself am not that "dim of wit", but would you do me the courtesy of enlightening me on just what exactly that's supposed to mean?
Ever try to pull hens teeth?

We can provide definitions of gods til the cows come home, what we can't do is show those definitions are apt.
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #39

Post by Athetotheist »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:40 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:07 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:02 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:03 pm For a general definition of God, "the underlying source of all else which exists" is what I'm getting at.
You'll pull hens teeth before ya put truth to that'n.
I like to think that I myself am not that "dim of wit", but would you do me the courtesy of enlightening me on just what exactly that's supposed to mean?
Ever try to pull hens teeth?

We can provide definitions of gods til the cows come home, what we can't do is show those definitions are apt.
That's why I proposed a general definition. It provides a starting point.

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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #40

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Athetotheist wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 6:06 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:40 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:07 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:02 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:03 pm For a general definition of God, "the underlying source of all else which exists" is what I'm getting at.
You'll pull hens teeth before ya put truth to that'n.
I like to think that I myself am not that "dim of wit", but would you do me the courtesy of enlightening me on just what exactly that's supposed to mean?
Ever try to pull hens teeth?

We can provide definitions of gods til the cows come home, what we can't do is show those definitions are apt.
That's why I proposed a general definition. It provides a starting point.
Starting point for what?

Not even that definition can be shown to be truthful.
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

- William

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