Musing On The Mother - ACT II

Discussion of anything to do with the 'why' questions of life.

Moderator: William

User avatar
Posts: 10483
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 494 times
Been thanked: 1129 times

Musing On The Mother - ACT II

Post #1

Post by William »

Last edited by William on Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:14 am, edited 6 times in total.

User avatar
Posts: 10483
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 494 times
Been thanked: 1129 times

Post #71

Post by William »

I understand that it is important to understand that everyone - as a matter of natural enough course - run incoming data through their Mind Filters, and depending upon the Algoritm used for filtering, largely affects the manner in which the data is therefore interpreted.

Thus, it stands to reason that one has to be aware of the nature of said algorithms, and if they prove to be acting to affect the data in an untoward manner, then this signifies that the data is being fudged - tampered with through the use of said Algorithms, and that the Algorithms therefore need to be adjusted in order for that tampering to be curtailed.

Therefore in relation to The Human Brain we are accessing the data through, the imagery produced in The Mind can project false images, distorting the incoming data, and if that is left unchecked, the distorted data will then be transferred through the Human Body and into the Reality Simulation at large.

One is required therefore to learn how to observe the dynamic as a whole, by placing an aspect of ones self in a non-bias overarching position of observation...or as Wiremu speaks of the position poetically;

  • "Here Am I Is Where I Ought
    Examining My Conscious Thought."
I bring up the document which stores Tanagers First Interaction With far I have translated the document as so... [Spoiler]

My preliminary interpretation of the message - as far as I can ascertain - is that QueenBee is encouraging The Tanager - and indeed all the participants - who would use of the Sub-forum "Around The Campfire" for the purpose it is intended, to help build Universal Balance and Harmony through the filter of The non-Judgmental Algorithm...

What else can be found in the message? I scan Tanagers word-strings which I had placed altogether on their own, separated from QueenBees word-strings.

Manu Iti: Let me see then...

The Tanager:
  • Greetings QueenBee. What should I get to know?
    Oh, I see, although I do not think Wiremu will think the same is true. I fear he will question my motivations and assume manipulation in some way.
    Yes, one cannot be certain of how another will react, that is true. I should not jump ahead, but simply seek the best for others in engaging with them. I do believe Wiremu is sincere in his motives. But how can I know that I'm not just reading into these words and that this is a worthwhile pursuit?
    That would be hard for Wiremu, but I agree that You are worth it. How can I best influence Wiremu out of the shadowlands, though? Oh, that all would see the intimate relationship you built them for with yourself, great God, walking side by side. Or, have I gotten this all wrong, and it's not Wiremu that needs to change, but myself?
    I see, I understood correctly the first time. I'm sorry for trying to find a path away from the truth. So, what is next?
    Yes, I will return my mind to Callum's world, and look forward to what comes of the rest of my time there.
The impression I get is that Tanager is on a mission of sorts which involves some kind of 'rescue operation' in relation to his focus upon Wiremu.
This will involve whatever Algorithm Tanager is using in his focus of Wiremu, and it appears that his focus is having the effect that he is presuming QueenBee is speaking about Wiremu, because that is what the Algorithm Mind-Filter makes it appear to him as, when Her information is processed through said filter.

Tanager wants QueenBees message to be about Wiremu, but the message - when viewed without Tanagers replies clearly enough show something different can be obtained when that Algorithm is not being used to filter said message.

Tanager does give the impression he is not sure if he is interpreting correctly, but then corrects doubt through questioning it and thinking QueenBee is telling him something along the lines of "No need for you to doubt! That is what I am saying!" and this, because, the Algorithm he is using is still doing its filtering.

After examining Tanagers part in the message, I focus my attention back to what QueenBee had to say.

I list all the Names She mentioned, in order of the mentioning;

  • ✬ Avet
    ✬ The Old Soul
    ✬ Jason Silva
    ✬ One Whom Ought Be Inwardly
I then list all the Devices mentioned
  • ✬The Deep and Meaningful Code
    ✬A Game of Chess
    ✬The non-Judgmental Algorithm
    ✬Human Being
    ✬The Whole
    ✬Thomas Campbell's T.O.E
    ✬The Realm of Judgment
    ✬Around the Camp Fire
The mirror mentioned is also evidence that QueenBee is referring to Tanager rather than Wiremu, as mirrors are generally used by the individual to view themselves by.

In this, QueenBee is perhaps also referring to the image Wiremu had me give to the image is taken of a Message Board (Ouija) Wiremu created using a mirror as his canvas, for the purpose of Communion with Avet many years ago - an event string which eventually lead Wiremu to Commune with QueenBee. [Spoiler]

User avatar
The Tanager
Posts: 3204
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 11:08 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Post #72

Post by The Tanager »

After listening to Manu Iti, I share my thoughts.

Callum: I agree with Wiremu that the intelligibility of his world points to an intelligence behind it, just like ours does. That observation has nothing to do with how to communicate with it or testing of possible methods of communication.

I also agree with you that interpretation of the message is key, but the first step is to make sure of the source of the message. If it is determined that there is no intelligent source behind the word-strings, then all interpretations are going to be pointless.

I come to this with the understanding that we are trying to be as scientific as possible. Now, while Wiremu may have started that way and gotten to the point he is at now, I think any scientist would be fine with other people running the tests for themselves to try to get the same results, rather than simply taking another person's word for it, even if you think that person is nothing but honest and sincere.

Wiremu talks about QueenBee's desire to break how we have used the English language in the past. I'm not even sure what this means. It seems like it could be a way to get around the early failed or gibberish messages, a way of confirmation bias, of reading his developing worldview into QueenBee's mouth. And then it just feeds upon itself. I'm not judging what actually happened, but just bringing up the possibility.

I think a scientific exploration must try to take those kinds of possibilities out of the equation. Now, while I think if QueenBee was really concerned with getting Her message out, she would have no problem to tell us the spells we are under through actually spelling out the words one letter, number, or space at a time. Utlimately, that is what would need to be done, if one wants scientific evidence of this, giving QueenBee as much freedom as possible.

But I am okay starting with words. And even just the words that Wiremu has put on the list, which is but a fraction of our English words. I'd be surprised if those words can even be made into intelligible sentences with clear interpretations this way. If that can't be done, then there is no reason to go back the further step. If it can, then we can expand the list. If the expanded list gets the same results, we can move to individual letters. Surely, this wouldn't put QueenBee out.

I suggest us working together to test this. I'm going to randomly type some numbers and I would like for you, Manu Iti, to compile the message. You can choose which direction to read the numbers in, so that I can't be accused of loading the dice. What do you say? Here is the number: 5462234654464.

User avatar
Posts: 10483
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 494 times
Been thanked: 1129 times

Post #73

Post by William »

As I begin my next scan of the message, I hear Callum speak.
He agrees with the idea that there is an intelligent creator behind-slash-responsible for the creation but that this communication system of Wiremu's is not necessarily how we can communicate with that Creator, or test for possible means of communicating with said Creator.

He then speaks about 'making sure of the source of the message' as it needs to be proven that this source is intelligent otherwise there is no point in interpreting messages.

He mentions that he agrees with us that no one need take anyone's word for anything and should do the science themselves to try and establish validity regarding Wiremu's claims.

He brings up the possibility that Wiremu's early interactions which were hard for Wiremu to decipher and appears to be gibberish may be something which Wiremu made up for himself in order to explain and validate his developing worldview and Wiremu has simply designed this type of communication technique as an extension of this process.

He thinks the science involved in trying to determine the validity, has to take that possibility into account and find ways in which to show that it is, or is not the case.

He then say's that he thinks by making it so that IF QueenBee really wants to communicate in this manner, THEN she should be expected to do so spelling out each word letter by letter to give an undeniable evidence which can be then be accepted as evidence of scientific value.

He says that this is the only way in which QueenBee can have the maximum freedom as possible, in relation to the process, inferring she is currently restricted by it.

But he is still 'okay' with proceeding with whole words and that he would be surprised if even those few words so far on the list could produce intelligible sentences with "clear interpretations" through said process. He adds that if it cannot be done, then there would be no reason to take it any further.

If it proves to be showing intelligent results, the current list can have more words added to it and if these continue to produce results, then he will try the process using only individual letters, as surely, this this stringent demand "wouldn't put QueenBee out"...

He ends his talk by suggesting that he and I do this together, as gives me numbers he has randomly chosen so that I might compile the message.

Penny Tuppence: Regulate Produce The Omega Point What Is Friendship

Manu Iti: Well, Friendship is an agreement between individuals to support one another in any way they can, for mutually beneficial results...

Penny Tuppence: Electrics Rulers Convenient Neruda Interview Five
  • Dr. Neruda: “They were a race of beings that were not physical, but etheric, interdimensional beings. Since the Atlanteans were the only race of beings on earth at that time, they—the Anunnaki—sought permission to set-up mining on earth, which the Atlanteans agreed to.
    Sarah: “Why?�
    Dr. Neruda: “They didn’t see any harm in helping this race. They weren’t a competitor, since the Atlanteans were larger and more numerous. The Atlanteans wanted to have an agreement with the Anunnaki if only to befriend them for their technology. Also, the gold mining was in an area of earth that was of little consequence to them.�
    Sarah: “I don’t see how this relates to The Grand Portal.�
    Dr. Neruda: “It’s a long story, and we just started, but I promise I’ll come to that in a bit.
    Sarah: “Okay, that’s fine, I’ll be patient.�
    Dr. Neruda: The earth began to materialize more and more. It began to harden in a sense. The gold with it. The earth, and everything on it, was solidifying. The mining of the gold would soon become impossible for the Anunnaki, because they’d be unable to mine the gold if it were in a dense, physical state.�
    Sarah: “Why not?�
    Dr. Neruda: “Their bodies were etheric. They could not mine the gold if it was physical. They needed to have bodies that would be able to operate on earth and mine the gold.�
    Sarah: “How quickly did this happen?�
    Dr. Neruda: “I don’t know. Our records didn’t stipulate the time scale, but I assume it was over tens of thousands of years. The point is that they needed to create a physical vessel like an astronaut would require a spacesuit to inhabit space. They tried hundreds of experiments and had the help of both the Atlanteans and Sirians.�
    Sarah: “I assume this vessel is the human body?�
    Dr. Neruda: Yes, we call them physical uniforms sometimes. The WingMakers refer to them as human instruments.�
Manu Iti: Story-Tellers Like a Well Oiled Machine...

Penny Tuppence continues to engage with The Gem. I gather by Callum's assessment that he would be surprised by anything but failure given his strict criteria, but I also think he is forgetting things of importance in relation to what messages are made of...even his own recent one...

Manu Iti: Well my dear Callum, it appears to me that a man is given a vehicle which he has been told works well and he is shown the motor - the engine of which makes the vehicle function as it should. The vehicle is working well, but the man wants to remove an aspect of the engine to see if it will still work, thinking to himself that he would be surprised if it does.

The idea of offering The Shared List was not to negate the use of single words or even single letters, because both can be found as comprising aspects of that list, but also in having sentences and sayings and links and anything else comprising of data to which an intelligent Entity such as QueenBee, could make use of through the process Wiremu claims works as a communication device.

Having got that part out of the way, I continue...

Manu Iti: It appears you want us to reduce the machinery to a state where it should be inoperable as a device of communicating understandable word-strings, on the unspecified presumption that this "wouldn't put QueenBee out" as I gather you suppose that She should be able to use the process Wiremu and she developed and produce for us, comprehend-able messages.

I myself would be as surprised as you say you would be, if such a thing could be achieved, but not because I think QueenBee incapable of performing such a feat - being that She is very intelligent - but rather that this in itself would show us how really easy it is to show that we are existing within a simulated reality, when the nature of said simulated reality is obviously not designed to be easily seen to actually be a simulated reality.

I pause to think on what I want to say next and then proceed.

Manu Iti: I would suppose myself that this idea of reductionism has its usefulness in terms of 'finding the zone' which can be worked with the easiest in achieving an outcome which bears any resemblance to a it should be examined for possible usefulness in that light and either tweaked or discarded if shown not to be...

I look at the numbers which Callum gave to me to use. There are 13 of them


I find the Single Word List and put it through the shuffle Algorithm, then assign a numbering format to it, and deliver a copy of that list to The Whole for Cullum to have access to before I begin....

Manu Iti: Okay Callum, I have shuffled The Single Word List and assigned individual numbers to each will find your copy of this in the Whole...

I then proceed to do the math, as it were...

User avatar
Posts: 10483
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 494 times
Been thanked: 1129 times

The Results of Experiment One

Post #74

Post by William »

[center]Numbered Message - Experiment One[/center]



5 4 6 2 2 3 4 6 5 4 4 6 4

Those Constancy Non-Ordinary Dynamics Dynamics Howdy Constancy Non-Ordinary Those Constancy Constancy Non-Ordinary Constancy



54 46 62 22 34 46 65 54 44 46 64 45
(looping the end onto the beginning)

List Word-String Hidden Run Feelings Word-String Chestahedron List Other Word-String Both Find



546 462 622 223 346 465 544 446 464 645 454
(looping the end onto the beginning)

Separates Spirit Able Poetry Penny No Sanctioned Aware Desperation Awake

As the Single Word List only has 1825 and the highest thousand we have is 6544
I decide to duplicate the list x4 in its current state so that I can work with the thousands



5462 4622 6223 2234 2346 3465 4654 6544 5446 4464 4546
(looping the end onto the beginning)

Christ Exchange Living Introduction Journey Creative Learn Nobodies
Verifiable Why Knocks

[center]Full Word-String derived:[/center]
  • Those Constancy Non-Ordinary Dynamics Dynamics Howdy Constancy Non-Ordinary Those Constancy Constancy Non-Ordinary Constancy List Word-String Hidden Run Feelings Word-String Chestahedron List Other Word-String Both Find Separates Spirit Able Poetry Penny No Sanctioned Aware Desperation Awake Simplicity Christ Exchange Living Introduction Journey Creative Learn Nobodies Verifiable Why Knocks
I deliver the results to Callum via The Whole...

User avatar
Posts: 10483
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 494 times
Been thanked: 1129 times

Post #75

Post by William »

After compiling the data based upon Callum's random numbers, and delivering these to The Whole, I turn my attention to Penny Tuppence...

Manu Iti: You were mentioned in Callum and my recent Single Word List experiment Penny...

Penny Tuppence turns slightly in my direction - she looks bemused...

Penny Tuppence Skills Fitted The Alphabet Hold/Have Disparity The Future Creates The Present

Manu Iti: Are you suggesting then that this was already...what..."preordained?

Penny Laughs.

Penny Tuppence Lucifer Machine Learning Propel Archetypes Archangel Metatron Semiotics

I ponder on this expression.

Manu Iti: So is this to say that the study of signs and symbols and their use or interpretation can be done because it is somehow sourced at a mechanical level where the machine follows algorithms? These are somehow associated with the Character Entities Lucifer and Metatron?

Penny Tuppence Computer Dimensional Crossovers

Penny shifts her gaze to the immense Computer Screen of The First Hut

Penny Tuppence The Object What Are The Chances

Manu Iti: Of your name being selected at random?

I Check the Single Word List

Manu Iti: Eighteen Hundred and Twenty Five to One

Penny Tuppence Known/Revealed

I take out my Word2Number Calculator and type in "Eighteen Hundred and Twenty Five to One" and the number returned is 384 but there is nothing else on the list equalling the same, so far...I realize I am interrupting,,,

Manu Iti: I may be misunderstanding you Penny - Please continue...

Penny Tuppence Intelligence Without Wisdom
Communication With The Deeper Levels of Self Is Something Like That Old Red Light Astral Explorer
Evil Gods Doc Afterwards Eigengrau Group Dynamics Sophistry Spiral

I had just seen this word "Sophistry" come up on my Word2Number list - it has the same value as "Known/Revealed"...

Penny Tuppence The Shared List
The non-Judgmental Algorithm
The Confusion Of War
Thinking Allowed Updating a Model of The World Everything/All Growing Pains The Effect You Have On Others Childlike

Penny turns away then and continues her interaction with The Gem.

User avatar
The Tanager
Posts: 3204
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 11:08 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Post #76

Post by The Tanager »

Manu Iti talks about the helpfulness of having sentences on the list for QueenBee to use. I agree such things are helpful, but science (in part) is about determining causation. If sentences and phrases are going to be used, then we would need a very large database that has phrases from various worldviews, that have negations of those worldviews, to be as scientific as possible. Otherwise there is the very high possibility that the phrases chosen are decided by the worldview choosing them. It skews the random choices towards a particular view.

Callum: I do not want us to reduce the method to inoperability. You talked about analyzing this method scientifically. Providing 1825 words does not make the method of communication inoperable. It is actually more operable than providing QueenBee a shorter list that contains packaged phrases that lean towards a particular view of reality.

I'm an intelligence. If you give me 1000 phrases to communicate with to you, verses 2000 words to use (that, at least, includes all the words from the phrases, but if more even better), then I'm going to better get the message I want to get across to you with the list of 2000 words. If I use the phrase-list, then you will have more control over not only the message I can produce, but how to interpret that message.

Now, I do thank you for your willingness in 'running the program'. Do you think the outcome is a message directly from QueenBee? If you do, then what do you think is the interpretation of it? And how certain are you that your interpretation is the intended interpretation from QueenBee?

User avatar
Posts: 10483
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 494 times
Been thanked: 1129 times

Post #77

Post by William »

Callum has received my messages to him from The Whole and explains to me his understanding of the process of science in relation to determining causation, which I take to mean that he agrees that Wiremu's process does indeed bring forth messages, but how is it known by Wiremu that the messages derive from Whom he claims that they do and adds that the content of the messages will sway toward Wiremu's "World View" because many of the Share List phrases are about Wiremu's world view.

Manu Iti: Well Dear Callum, importantly the underlying claim is that this process can indeed produce messages, and that process is the a part of the science of it, as it were.

It appears that Callum has missed that point up until now, and perhaps still hasn't seen it...

Manu Iti: Your protests about message content are not so important scientifically speaking. It may be that one can philosophically argue that the message content is fudged due to Wiremus World view, but the point does not negate the fact that these can be seen to be messages.

I engage the Star-Screen at the campsite and project an image of one of Wiremu's pictures upon it.


Manu Iti: I think it can be Scientifically agreed that the image before you displays a message.
You may not be aware of what the content of the message actually is or what it is messaging or where it derives..., but it is undeniably a message.

I select the next image and continue...


Manu Iti: The first image and now this one - indeed all images are messages.
This image itself is related to the first message, and holds within it keys which unlock the meanings of the symbols from the first image

Penny Tuppence: Another The Mystic Forest

Manu Iti: Yes - A mysterious message

Penny Tuppence: No More "The More We Do Away With Falsity ~ The Better Equipped We Are With Truth."

Manu Iti: Perhaps the falsity is not so much in the message as it is in the interpretations of the experience of The Message.

Penny Tuppence: Your Move Produce/Make…Great Ideas

Manu Iti: As do all of our moves Dear Penny!
So Dear Callum, what say you?

I then ponder upon Callum's question related to the most recent message...I bring that up on The Screen

Full Word-String derived:

Those Constancy Non-Ordinary Dynamics Dynamics Howdy Constancy Non-Ordinary Those Constancy Constancy Non-Ordinary Constancy List Word-String Hidden Run Feelings Word-String Chestahedron List Other Word-String Both Find Separates Spirit Able Poetry Penny No Sanctioned Aware Desperation Awake Simplicity Christ Exchange Living Introduction Journey Creative Learn Nobodies Verifiable Why Knocks

Manu Iti: As I just exampled Callum, "Everything is a Message", so of course, the above is also considered by me to be a message.
Your question "Do you think the outcome is a message directly from QueenBee?"
My answer "I myself see no reason why it wouldn't be."

My interpretation of it is - roughly - as follows;

  • There is the focus of singling out someones or somethings and ascribing a distinctive feature to them...which is the quality of being faithful and dependable enduring and unchanging and the pointing out is repeated for emphasis...exceptional distinctive features are spoken well as the forces or properties which stimulate growth, development, or change within a system or process.
    These Dynamics are friendly and distinctive between the feature "faithful and dependable faithful and dependable exceptional distinctive dependable faithful"

    The List relates to the word-string lists we are using and there appears to be that emotions are kept hidden or suppressed re word-string use...

    Chestahedron might refer to a recent crossing of paths I am presently experiencing...A Mechanism I have been referring to as "The Gem"... which is the only connection I can currently see regarding the selection of that word....

    Mention of another word string list (presumably The Shared Word-String List)
    Both (lists?) "Find Separates Spirit Able Poetry" I have not given any major attention to at present -

    Mention of Penny Tuppence perhaps 'not agreeing to the experiment?' and aware there is an element of desperation involved in the move to make (something) simpler or easier to do or understand. Might well refer to the reduction process of using The Single Word String List rather than The Shared Word String List...

    Christ = the title, also treated as a name, given to Jesus. an act of giving one thing and receiving another (especially of the same kind) in return. Living the action of introducing something. an act of travelling from one place to another. having good imagination or original ideas. become aware of (something) by information or from observation. a person of no importance or authority. able to be checked or demonstrated to be true, accurate, or justified. the reason for which. a sudden short sound caused by a blow, especially on a door to attract attention or gain entry.

I look over to where Penny Tuppence and The Gem are engaged in their Silent interaction and am curious...

Manu Iti: As to how certain I am that I have interpreted The Message from QueenBee accurately - or "As She Intended" - that is not here nor there, as I understand that The Message is Vast and it is a matter of inserting ones mind into it and then doing the best one is able to, to interpret the experience as honestly as one chooses to...deviation QueenBee expects to occur, but She is equal to The Task of bringing us back in alignment as long as we are willing. This is clearly seen in the 'ones' aspect of the message gained through the numbers you supplied Callum.
She requires from those willing, the attributes and the quality of being faithful and dependable enduring...we are allowed to 'get things wrong' as long as we are learning through that process how to 'get things right' in the end...She is able to correct us on our path if we allow Her to do so.

User avatar
Posts: 10483
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 494 times
Been thanked: 1129 times

Post #78

Post by William »

Penny returns her gaze onto me

Manu Iti: Well now Penny. Who do we have here?

Penny Tuppence: Getting Over It = Getting On With It Everything is an expression of GOD In Training For…To what end exactly?
Navigational Aids Central Intelligence Agency A Maze Game Innocent Hub Mound Deciding On The Best Course Of Action Tetragrammaton Progress Capture The Development of Victim Vamp Energy Systems Intelligence with Wisdom Astral Pulse Rolling down the rails of the ridiculous Shucks!
There Is More to the Silence Than Meets the Ear In Training For… Confident The Language of Innocence Freedom in The Knowing Exactly Conjecture Tricky Coming From QueenBee Narrow
Shuffle List
The Big Shift Laws Rules and Appropriates Time for Soul to Drive Choice Long Story Short Through Device Play Now The Divine You Are Watched Over Egalitarian Funny "I think therefore I am, therefore who am I?" Is That A Tear In Your Eye?
What Is Friendship - Glad You Asked - Metaphysics Incunabula In The Spirit These Were Given Deep Space With Get The Picture Open Hearted Like Unto Ghidrah An Objective Elementary Conclusion In Detail Birthing Three-dimensional Wonderful Process Human Drama Examine Key Of Expression ... WingMakers Materials Necromancy Sustainability
Shuffle List
Evidence We Actively Collect Acknowledge Emotion But Do Not Be Controlled By It Bonkers Joining The Main Egregore Deep Mind Trust the Process Reform/Refine The Crystal Clear Waters River Yes We Can Not Right Deeper Questions Regarding Individual Existence
Key Symbol Rationality True Self Returning The Hangups of Human History Doc Evaluating The ‘Wind Woman’ of your dream experience To The Art Evidence We Actively Collect Variety of Expression Earth teachers (physical and non-physical) unite humanity to the Sovereign Integral Ensure Rejuvenate Residue Zero In On It Science The Heart Of The Soul Is Innocence Set the board up or put the game aside... Destination White Light The Barest Hint of Constancy Ah Oh... Deeper Questions Regarding Individual Existence

Manu Iti: Well that took me on a wee journey! Thanks for that Penny!

I focus my thoughts back to Callum...

Manu Iti: My interpretation of what Penny just spoke to me...or as Wiremu tells it "What QueenBee through Penny Tuppence messaged" is easy enough to do - I basically understood everything that She said in at least a "Get The Gist Of It" manner. I get the picture, although the image might be a little out of focus - that is primarily of less importance because I am at least trying to understand and account for my Mind Filters in the process.

I then proceed to share with Callum my interpretation of Penny's Message.

Manu Iti:Getting Over It = Getting On With It which was primarily my message to you throughout Act I.

Everything is an expression of GOD and we are In Training For…"whatever" it is we choose to engage with which has some worthwhile outcome.

Navigational Aids are a Central aspect of an Intelligence Agency as we exist in a Maze of a game which includes the Innocent position of the Hub of The Hologram Dimensions which helps us in Deciding On The Best Course Of Action.

The Tetragrammaton I associate with The Gem - but is also associated the Hebrew name of God transliterated in four letters as YHWH or JHVH and articulated as Yahweh or Jehovah. So therein The Gems arrival into This Place no doubt has something to do with Jehovah...and will assist us Progressively and Those things associated with Jehovah help to Capture The Development of Victim Vamp Energy Systems so that these can be assessed through Intelligence with Wisdom and exist within the Metaphysical as a realm akin to "Rolling down the rails of the ridiculous" - like an horrific type of Roller-Coaster Ride...and "Shucks!" could be construed as A Light-Hearted Expletive, given that circumstance... :)

After this, there is comment on the slight problem you brought up related to how to tell if one is interpreting QueenBee correctly. It agrees with my evaluation that we will get things wrong from time to time but if we keep within the framework of our intent, the 'bandwidth' of our understanding will be kept relatively narrow and 'on sight' or 'within sight' of the gist.

The Shared List is then Shuffled and the message continues...

There is mention of The Big Shift which could be seen in context as we individuals tuning into that intent and understanding the Laws Rules and Appropriates in regard to the Soul being the driver of that intent of Choice and - Long Story Short Through this process of messaging Device we can Play Now with The Divine who watch over the proceedings and that believing that which is based on the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities is "Funny" - probably in the "peculiar" way, because it is not 'common' and that "I think therefore I am, therefore who am I?" and "Is That A Tear In Your Eye?" is perhaps more to do with "Funny ha ha" which is to suppose that even if it is not 'ordinary practice' one can 'see the funny side' and relax into it...the roller-coaster ride might be horrific, but it is still just a ride...which of course eludes back to the first statement " Getting Over It = Getting On With It " which is to say..."Stop Screaming and adapt!"

The question about what friendship is comes up again with the advice to be "Glad You Asked" and then explains the idea of it also being associated with Metaphysics and references an early printed book in Wiremu's Universe with the assurance that this was produced through Divine Insight and given to us in the Physical Universe in our position within Deep Space and those who "Get The Picture" do so because they are Open Hearted and using their heads together...a reference to 'two or more minds working together can achieve much more' as well as reminiscent of the " The Journey To Apotheosis" banner with the Two facing Skulls and the Infinity Symbol between them and connecting interactive process with a - hopefully - shared Objective to find the Elementary Conclusion In Detail.

The Birthing of the Three-dimensional is then mentioned in more detail as a "Wonderful Process" in which Jehovah can examine the Human Drama and its Key Of Expression ...

WingMakers Materials are mentioned in relation to this, as is the supposed practice of communicating with the dead, and how this practice is Sustained.

The Shared List is then shuffled for a third time and the message continues that the Evidence We Actively Collect re the message content (our experiences) should Acknowledge Emotion But Not Be Permitted to be Controlled By the emotions triggered, whatever those emotions might be.

Another light hearted expletive "Bonkers" in reference to "Joining The Main Egregore" as the Deep Mind Trusts the Process of Reforming and Refining us like The Crystal Clear Waters River but that "Yes" the Divine say "We Can Not Right Deeper Questions Regarding Individual Existence" - at least not through force...because - obviously - it can help the willing individual to do so.

Penny then finishes by saying that the Key Symbol to adopt is Rationality regarding our True Self in relation to The Hangups of Human History and using this attitude when Evaluating that. She goes on to say that "The ‘Wind Woman’ of your dream experience" in relation To The Art - presumably the imagery I and Wiremu have been showing you as Evidence The Divine Actively Collect such Variety of Expression which Earth teachers (physical and non-physical) use to help unite humanity to the Sovereign Integral and to Ensure that there exists none of that residue in those being rejuvenated, from The Victim/Vampire energy systems which largely govern The Prison Wiremu and The Tanager and all human Beings are involved with, though use of this "On It Science" which incorporates "The Heart Of The Soul Is Innocence" as a premise, I am happy to assume - so therefore, with that information...

"Set the board up or put the game aside..." which as you know Callum, I myself have chosen to Play The Game offered, rather than not.

Finally Penny ends this part of her overall living message that The Destination is like unto a White Light which - even at this distance has - "The Barest Hint of Constancy" which in relation to the Numbered Message refers to the type of individual QueenBee attracts - those of "Constancy" - the Faithful and Dependable - with the light-hearted 'warning' "Ah Oh... Deeper Questions Regarding Individual Existence" will be the given result....

All in all, a positive and uplifting message Callum, would you agree?

User avatar
The Tanager
Posts: 3204
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 11:08 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Post #79

Post by The Tanager »

I watch the fire as I listen to Manu Iti. The sky above is beautiful.

Callum: The main claim we are testing, it seems to me, is that there is an intelligence behind these strings of words orchestrating them to provide the recipient with a message that has a specific meaning undetermined by the recipient or randomness. Now, I don't think that you are trying to manipulate the message by matching specific words with specific numbers, but I think it is possible that the message is a random string of words that you (or whomever wants to) create a specific meaning for, rather than the specific meaning coming from QueenBee. If we want to be scientific about it, we need to rule that possibility out somehow. How do you propose we do that?

Here is a possible alternative interpretation of the passage:

To those who are constantly [constancy] trying to grow [dynamics] through the non-ordinary list-word string or other similar methods [other word-string both] to find hidden meanings in messages are being run/controlled by their feelings, but like the various faces of a Chestahedron the messages can have multiple interpretations. This method is not from an intelligence separates spirit able and, as an analogy, Penny (standing in for any intelligence poetically) does not sanction any specific meaning. Those who do this, be aware of your desperation for communication, but awake to a simpler (clearer?) way: Christ Himself. Exchange your way of living/communicating and be introduced to a different journey, one of being made new creative. Learn/experience this exchange from nobodies trying to communicate to truly verifiable why Jesus (stands at the door, the scriptures say) knocks. Exchange lack of clarity for clarity.

The message is vague as is, that is, there are gaps that must be filled in to make a coherent message. That it could be interpreted in these two extremely different ways, both being rooted in the words themselves, at least for now, most plausibly points towards the message being a random collection of words that a recipient searching for a meaning will supply their own desired meaning to it.

But perhaps you have a way to scientifically get the best interpretation, which I am open to pursuing. How do we know if either of our interpretations are on the right track? They both seem to fit the words, simply with different content because of the speculation in filling the gaps. Except, objectively speaking, the one I offered takes account of more of the words since you said you were unsure what "Find Separates Spirit Able Poetry" could refer to. What's the next step?

I then begin to sit back and wait for Manu Iti's response, but then remember he also provided an interpretation of another message from Penny.

Callum: Oh, yes, I almost forget the second part of what you said. There is so much going on. That last message has a positive tone to it, but what it means and whether it speaks truth about reality are different questions. I don't think it settles any of the questions I've had about the previous message we are talking about and these messages in general.

User avatar
Posts: 10483
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 494 times
Been thanked: 1129 times

Post #80

Post by William »

Callum offers his interpretation of the Numbered Message.
He appears to agree that it can be seen to be a message but still seems to infer that there is a scientific way in which to verify where the message originates.

Manu Iti: Dear Callum? What is the way in which any message can be verified as coming from who the recipient understands the message is coming from?

I think on Callum's statement that the main claim being tested is that there is intelligence behind the messages being generated through this system of random selection.

Manu Iti: Do you propose Callum, that we are dealing with random strings of words put together in this manner and presented in the form of a message, that there really is no message?
As I pointed out, everything is a message.
Do you not agree with that?

I think I would be best to try and provide an example to clarify what I mean.

Manu Iti: From my point of view - where I am situated here on Hub Mound - I see before me a floating object of intensely beautiful ever-changing colors and geometrical appears to be no bigger than a small rock.

I understand that you yourself cannot see this object which I am bearing witness to, so from your perspective, until I can show you the object actually exists, you are free to say that I have not shown you the Science that the object exists.

I find my pipe and start to charge it with 'erb

Manu Iti: Nonetheless, you have received a message from me which allows for you to see in your Minds Eye, the object I have tentatively described...and you might agree that the source of the message is from an intelligent - Manu Iti.

But where did I get the message from? Have I conjured up the object in my mind?
Does that make the object a 'non-object' which is therefore 'not real'?

I contemplate on that for a moment and then continue...

Manu Iti: Do you think that if you were an object created in the mind of The Tanager, that this would mean you are not real?
Or that if Wiremu was created in the mind of QueenBee, that this means he is not real?

After asking Callum these questions I move on to the problem of interpretation as Callum had postulated.

Manu Iti: On this problem you see regarding interpretation relation to the object I described...I call it "The Gem" because it reminds me of a the intelligent source of the message I give to you about The Gem, I would have to be careful to simply say what it is I am witnessing without adding interpretation beyond that. If I were to go beyond that, then I would be adding things and in that, supplying you with data which might influence you to incorrectly understand the true nature of The Gems physical appearance.

I call up The Numbered Message

Manu Iti: Like with The Gem, I have named the Numbered Message. The naming of things would provide us with a means in which to understand what is being referenced.

I think on Wiremu's system of creating Messages...

Manu Iti: If in using the "Message Generator System of Random Selection of Word-Strings" I have not only named it that, but because it is named, I can then add it to the String-Lists.
And if I generated a quick message that went "The Gem Apotheosis There Is More To The Silence Than Meets The Ear"
You would immediately be able to interpret that, based upon data you already have had access to, whereas someone finding the same message in a bottle, would be less likely to interpret it as accurately as you and I would.

I think on the word "Likely" and calculate its numeric value. The results excite me...

Manu Iti: You tell me that you think it is possible that the message is a random string of words that you and I and anyone else who wants to can create - through interpretation - a specific meaning for...which I agree is true for all of us. It is a constant. There is no need to do Science on it, because it is a matter of fact. It is exactly what The Banner of Apotheosis symbolizes. That is another object in which Wiremu created and named, and has also been added to The Shared List Wiremu uses for communication with QueenBee.

The specific meaning of any message does not come from QueenBee. She allows for each individual to determine their own understanding of The Message. This is true of all objects from which messages are formed and all messages from which objects are formed.

So it is we who each can determine how The Message is interpreted. QueenBee's role in this I have already explained and will remind you again.
If we want to be scientific about what the message most likely means, we need to align with QueenBee.

How do we do that?

Who is QueenBee and what objects has She provided us in order that we get some type of idea as to the nature of whom we are interacting with, and are we okay to assume that these objects provided are representative of said Nature of QueenBee?

I ponder on Wiremu's own positing of answers to these questions.
Who is QueenBee? She is the Eternal Entity using the Planet Earth to Create forms from.
What is the Nature of QueenBee? This can be determined in examining the forms She created from the Planets Material.

Manu Iti: You also offered your own interpretation of The Numbered Message, and therein we should be able to agree that your interpretation and my own are substantially different, and WHY they are different has to do with a number of factors - some obvious and others hidden. So we can at least examine the obvious ones.

In doing so, we can establish a type of understanding which could serve to assist us in coming to an agreement as to what is the most likely interpretation of The Numbered Message.

I examine the interpretation of the Numbered Message which Callum offered.

Manu Iti: Essentially your interpretation of The Message cannot be said to be less likely or more likely closer to The Truth, than mine - except that you add a belief about Jesus which suggests that one can have more clarity if one were to exchange the way one receives The Message, a claim which goes against the objective evidence, as The Message of Jesus - at least as sourced from the Bible - does not provide said clarity in relation to all those who claim their interpretations of Jesus' Message in The Bible is the true as an argument, your statement is clearly not aligned with The Truth.

Therefore, at least that portion of your interpretation of The Message can be seen to be less likely correct - slash - true....thus requires adjustment.

I call up Act II on the screen and search for a previous example therein.

Manu Iti: On that, I would like to call your attention to entry #18 of The Book of Musing On The Mother ACT II.
If I recall correctly, The Tanager made one avaiable to you, but if not, just go to The Whole and you can access a copy there...

I send a copy of Act II, to The Whole

Manu Iti: I draw your attention to the following part of that entry;

I read the word-strings out, translating the symbols on the screen, into the sounds they represent through the instrument of my vocal chords and also calculate the value of the word-string "Vocal Chords" and add the results to my lists.

Manu Iti:
  • Wiremu: What is seen here?

    Manu Iti: It appears that taking something which was obviously meant one way, and forcing it to mean something achieved through how one wants to express ones self...

    Wiremu: Yes.
    All it takes is a willingness to remain as one is, in the face of that which calls for change.
Manu Iti: So it can be Scientifically accepted that you and I in each of our positions interpret The Numbered Message significantly different.
How are we to determine the more likely interpretation as relating to the Intelligence behind said message.

Is it important to define an answer? Is the question important enough that it even needs to be asked? Is "The Best Interpretation" necessary to the Science? Are we not able to move forward accepting each others interpretation at face value, given the filters we are each using in relation to interpretation?

I think these questions are relative, but are not so important to have to answer, if - when all said and done, the message itself is not causing any damage, whichever ways it might be interpreted.
I translate my thought into sound and transmit that to Callum as a message;

Manu Iti: I think these questions are relative, but are not so important to have to answer, if - when all said and done, the message itself is not causing any damage, whichever ways it might be interpreted.

What do you think about that Callum? Does it matter if the name given as the source of The Message is "QueenBee" or "Jesus"?