Musing on Relationships

Discussion of anything to do with the 'why' questions of life.

Moderator: William

Locked
User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 10483
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 494 times
Been thanked: 1129 times
Contact:

Musing on Relationships

Post #1

Post by William »

My messenger signals I have incoming news from Wiremu. It is good to hear his voice again...

Wiremu: I wonder why folk have to argue and cannot get along and just see how we all need to work together to make this planet wholesome?"

I Poke at the fire with my staff

Manu Iti: I am here to hear. Humans are like sparks from a fire, reaching for the heavenly ones. They require some kind of poke to get activated..

A wolf howls in the distance

Wiremu: We are all here experiencing this planet in this universe. Yet for reasons not entirely clear, we are distracted by our arguments. Hindered by them, even to the death.

I place another branch on the fire.

Wiremu: Perhaps the fear of our situation would be too much to bear if we learned how to focus upon it, and so we distract ourselves...I have had another strange encounter with Callum's creator...we have fallen out as it were and he has messaged me to say that it greatly surprised him that we have a broken relationship.

Manu Iti: How do you view your relationship with Callum's creator?

Wiremu: I do not see that it is a relationship or ever has been one. Not because of anything in particular but because our interaction never developed into something I would refer to as a 'relationship'...

Manu Iti: Perhaps that is because you view Friendship as the ultimate form of Relationship?

Wiremu: Yes. But our relationship has never been that, so didn't "break".

Manu Iti: It has always been "broken?"

Wiremu: In the sense that it has never developed into a Friendship, so is not even regarded by me to being a relationship.

Manu Iti: An acquaintance and nothing more than that.

Wiremu: Correct. And in that, nothing in which to feel greatly surprised or astonished about when disagreement which is not fixable happens.

Manu Iti: Yet he reaches out to try and mend things?

Wiremu: Apparently. But there is nothing to mend as nothing was broken. The relationship has never been a Friendship.

Manu Iti: So in that sense, non-Friendship is a broken thing to begin with?

Wiremu: Not if it wasn't a Friendship to begin with. If it was a Friendship, then yes - it would be broken and thus could require fixing.

Manu Iti: So perhaps Callum's creator thinks you were once Friends with him then, and that is why he reaches out to 'fix the Friendship" he thinks once existed and is now broken?

Wiremu: Perhaps...I invited him to The Campfire by sending him this picture...and he replied that I need to translate the image into words for him to understand me.


I view the picture Wiremu sends. The moons brightness dissipates as a cloud passes in front of it...
Image
Manu Iti: It appears from what you tell me, that he does not understand you, yet thinks that you and he are Friends...if you were, then he would have immediately understood your invitation, because he would know you.

If he does turn up, I will attempt to explain to him your idea of Friendship
Congrats on your marriage to Lindy by the way!


Wiremu: Thank you! Now there is a real Friendship!

Online
User avatar
The Tanager
Prodigy
Posts: 3207
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 11:08 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Relationships - how are they built?

Post #51

Post by The Tanager »

Jason: I do think the mind is immaterial. I think the mind does use the brain to connect to matter. I need to know what you mean by 'form' before I could answer that part, though.

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 10483
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 494 times
Been thanked: 1129 times
Contact:

Re: Relationships - how are they built?

Post #52

Post by William »

William: Form is anything material. Even that sphere can be classified as form.

I point to the image of the sphere floating above us.

Image

William: Do you think the brain - and form - is that which the mind uses to connect with the material?

Online
User avatar
The Tanager
Prodigy
Posts: 3207
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 11:08 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Relationships - how are they built?

Post #53

Post by The Tanager »

Jason: Okay. Then I would say that human minds use the brain but not other forms to connect with other matter.

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 10483
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 494 times
Been thanked: 1129 times
Contact:

Re: Relationships - how are they built?

Post #54

Post by William »

William: One form - say that of a human hand - uses other forms - say, those things which together create a means in which to keep warm - and produce...

I point to the campfire...

William: ...Fire.

Or...


I quickly find an image on my tablet and project that into the air, superimposed upon the image of the Sphere...

Image

William: ...show us both, an image of an ancient olive tree, a paintbrush with a face, a strolling porcupine, a girl with a floating pram and the floating Sphere...

...so - unless you mean something else - then I would say that I have shown human minds use the brain and other forms to connect with other matter...

Online
User avatar
The Tanager
Prodigy
Posts: 3207
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 11:08 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Relationships - how are they built?

Post #55

Post by The Tanager »

Jason: Perhaps we are using "use" differently? The human mind, through the brain, moves the hand, which gathers the sticks and strikes the flint, etc. to start the fire. The human mind uses the brain, through the hands, to create the tablet and the artwork, that then gets interpreted by the recipient's human mind through that human's brain. The brain is always the immediate connection between human mind and these things, it seems to me.

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 10483
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 494 times
Been thanked: 1129 times
Contact:

Re: Relationships - how are they built?

Post #56

Post by William »

William: In relation to the human mind, who are you?

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 10483
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 494 times
Been thanked: 1129 times
Contact:

Re: Relationships - how are they built?

Post #57

Post by William »

While Jason considers how he will answer my question, I pour myself a brew. As I do, VIMHead sounds out into the external surrounds.

VIMHead: Poetry We Are Commitment Is That A Tear In Your Eye?

I laugh out loud at that.

William: Okay - since you are going to talk out loud - lets give you an image.

I instruct my tablet app to randomly select an appropriate image and it produces a somewhat cheeky looking old soul in human form...with wings...

Image

VIMHead: First Things First Simulacra

William: I agree. I thank you for bringing it up... I will wait until Jason provides an answer to my question as to what he thinks he is...

I look over at Jason, but he gives no indication that he is hearing or seeing any of this.

Online
User avatar
The Tanager
Prodigy
Posts: 3207
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 11:08 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Relationships - how are they built?

Post #58

Post by The Tanager »

Again I hear a voice, although I'm unsure what it means. And then a picture accompanies it. Then another phrase. What does it mean? Perhaps it means nothing and many things all at once, I wonder. I know too little of this place to know one way or the other or another. I return to William's question.

Jason: I see the mind and soul as the same thing. We are neither just our body nor just a soul. I think humans are ensouled bodies or embodied minds, to put it the other way round.

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 10483
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 494 times
Been thanked: 1129 times
Contact:

Re: Relationships - how are they built?

Post #59

Post by William »

Jason's answer appears to say that he does not understand what the human mind is...I decide to press him for clarity.

William: You said that you think the mind is immaterial... Now an embodied mind is not the same as a mind embodied in relation to how one might see oneself. While you think that it is, you have no option than to describe yourself as "neither just your body nor just your mind".

Such a state of limbo is like being in between two worlds - the material and the non material and belonging in neither ... rather than in both...

Since you experience both, would it not be better for you to think of yourself as the mind? Embodied yes, but not the body itself...the mind using the body...not the body being used by the mind...

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 10483
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 494 times
Been thanked: 1129 times
Contact:

Re: Relationships - how are they built?

Post #60

Post by William »

After answering Jason, I turn to our new guest.

William: Do you mind if I call you "Vimmy"?

Vimmy: Secrets of the Soul

William: Indeed.
I think the problem may have ben identified. Jason and I have a relationship [through natural causes] which cannot be built upon.

This is because we identify our selves differently, and the ripple effect of this is that it acts like liquification - an unstable environment unsuitable for building upon.

In that, I have also identified how important it is for each of us who start out as human beings [babies] to have to go through a reidentification process in which we learn to disengage with the body as having anything to do with who we are. This is the underlying factor in the philosophical treatise, Simulacra...we take reality and assign symbols upon that which create a simulation event of sorts...Superimposed upon actual reality.

We have never been "The Body" we have always been "The Mind"

As Jesus said, "Ye Must Be Born Again"... that which is body is body, that which is mind is Mind.


Vimmy: We oppose deception.

William: Yes...now that does make sense...it is the deception which veils the truth of who we are. Just like the image of the form from where the phrase is sourced...

I search for and find the image I am speaking of and project that onto the background screen of the surroundings...

Image

William: Judging a book by its cover is most regretful...

Vimmy: Patience...Requires World Wide Web Ancient Grey Entity Success Returning the Compliment...

I take a sip of brew and contemplate what Vinny has revealed to me...

Locked