Faith Heaing?

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POI
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Faith Heaing?

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Post by POI »

This thread is a spin-off for the already created topic "Prayer"....

The Bible instructs that God grants prayer requests - i.e. (Matthew 7:7), (Matthew 21:22), (Mark 11:24), (John 14:13-14), and (John 16:23); to name a few....

Let's assume the provided faith healer is genuine, and is a true believer. Many faith healers travel from place to place, and apparently offer cures for many, or at least claim to...

Why won't the faith healers ever seem to bother trying to pray for the regrowth of an amputated limb, or pray for the removal of someone's cerebral palsy, or pray for someone's child to no longer have downs syndrome? Or do they? And when they do, do they already know God will not answer the call, as instructed in the Bible?

Or is it because:

A. The faith healer knows God does not cure these particular conditions, and hence, the faith healer does not bother praying for the removal of them? Which begs the follow up question; why does the faith healer know this?
B. The faith healer does pray for the reversal of these conditions, and when these conditions always perpetually continue, the faith healer states "God has not answered (yet)"; even though the unfortunate recipients of these conditions will die with these conditions?
C. Faith healers know, deep down, they are a fraud, and are doing this for other reasons?
D. Other?

In line with Scripture, it seems to me quite odd that God is claimed to answer prayer, time and time again, but always skips over amputees, cerebral palsy, and downs syndrome.?.?.?.?

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Re: Faith Heaing?

Post #81

Post by brunumb »

POI wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:21 pm From my understanding, you are to proselytize. All each of you would need to do, is successfully convert one new member a year ---> for the JW population to double in size.
The trouble is that they are losing members at about the same rate as they are gaining new ones. As their dreadful treatment of people through shunning and ignoring sexual abuse becomes more public, I think the tide will shift in favour of the former.
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Re: Faith Heaing?

Post #82

Post by Jemima »

POI wrote:
Jemima wrote:All of the miracles performed in the first century were a demonstration of what was to come under the rule of God’s kingdom, which the Bible says is a governmental arrangement of God which will take us back to the paradise conditions we lost in the beginning. This life and all it’s trials and tragedies are the work of the devil. It was his rebellion that sparked all this, but abuse of free will has consequences. He was the first to abuse his free will and he took hostages. The human race was taken along for this horrible ride, and the devil managed to even take a third of the angels with him. How? By manipulating their thinking....altering their perceptions.
In order for God to regain his authority over his intelligent, free willed creation, he had to show them all what it meant to disobey him....to take for themselves what he did not give them. They wanted autonomy, but they had no right to it. So allowing them that freedom, and all that goes with it, was the only way to show them how woeful the world could be without God’s guidance and direction. Look where we are.....
Are you saying all the ones who pray for God to heal, are being foolish; that God will ignore all prayer requests to heal? And by ignore, I mean He will not heal them?
The only "healing" that God does at this time is 'spiritual'.......the 'physical' healing will come later. That was only a demonstration of things to come....we are still living in the devil's world where evil is underlying everything that affects humankind. (1 John 5:19)
People are not "foolish" for expecting something they have been led to believe is true....but how devastating when it proves to be false. You have to blame the ones who provided that false expectation in the first place.

Paul, who himself participated in physical healing and even raising the dead, said of future times....
"But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. . . When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child. . . . .13 Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love."
The need to see "magic" is the trait of a child...drawn by what is seen, but that requires no faith. The mature qualities in a Christian have to come from the heart...."faith, hope and love" are not tangible things. But each is necessary if one wants to become a Christian. These are not something you can order off eBay and expect them to be delivered to your front door....they are qualities that must, like a fortress, be build one "brick" at a time.

2 Corinthians 4:6-7 is a good reminder of what the important things are....
"Therefore, we do not give up, but even if the man we are outside is wasting away, certainly the man we are inside is being renewed from day to day. 17 For though the tribulation is momentary and light, it works out for us a glory that is of more and more surpassing greatness and is everlasting; 18 while we keep our eyes, not on the things seen, but on the things unseen. For the things seen are temporary, but the things unseen are everlasting."


If the faith healers of the world were truly from God then why would we need hospitals and medicines to treat sick people? They would only need one healer in every hospital and people would walk, or be carried in sick, and walk out 100% cured.....does that happen? Do we see anyone raising dead people?
Its not the time for that yet...the devil must first be put away and according to scripture, that is not too far away. (Revelation 20:1-3)
If so, where does it say that God no longer answers such prayer? All prayers asked according to God's will are heard.....for some the answer is "no, not now".

POI wrote:If God exists, He would know me. He would know why I do not believe. He would also know that perpetually not answering such prayer request(s) will further cement my lack in faith/hope to His mere asserted existence.
He will also know that your expectations have been created by his enemy and will endeavour to correct your thinking, if you let him. No one can cement your faith/hope but you. But first you have to have the right attitude in seeking God in the first place. You have to want to get to know him without judging him on the basis of the misinformation that you were given by those who misrepresented him to you.
POI wrote:Your response here is patently false. Satan knows God exists. He still chose to rebel. I don't think He even exists. At present, I think it's all just a story line. To state that you must first 'get your mind right', is incorrect. Satan never had His mind right. Neither did Sal of Tarsus, before he was contacted By God and later converted ;) Please try another argument.
"Another argument" will not work if there is no understanding of the first one.
Satan and Saul both operated out of their own free will according to their own evaluation of things.
One was humble enough to be corrected, but the devil was never humble to begin with. His agenda was to gain worship for himself and he didn't care what he had to sacrifice to obtain it.

The story told in the Bible is one of a magnificent spirit creature who, if he ever desired worship didn't have anyone in existence who could see him as a god. His fellow angels were all likewise magnificent, so it was only with the creation of man that satan made himself the devil by orchestrating a defection of the only creatures in existence who could see him as a god....intelligent but with little power....innocent and easily manipulated.

Temptations can come from both inside and outside of ourselves as James explains it...
"When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. 14 But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death." (James 1:13-15)
So why now will God not simply reveal Himself to me, so I may make an informed decision of whether or not to follow Him? If my uncle's CP was removed, after prayer, I would have no choice but to reconcile that such a God may actually exist. At which point, I would start to re-evaluate accordingly.
It seems to me that hostility is a barrier that can prevent any approach to God. You cannot make demands on him as though he can be manipulated by human tantrums, no matter how authentic the arguments seem to be, God will not be dictated to by anyone who is waving a clenched fist at him.

"Moreover, without faith it is impossible to please God well, for whoever approaches God must believe that he is and that he becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him." (Hebrews 11:6)
According to that verse, people create their own barrier to God just by their attitude.
POI wrote: You can't be serious? I would imagine the JW conversion rate, from going door to door, is pretty dang low. I would imagine the success rate is somewhere around that of a cold caller, at best. But it must sure feel nice when you get one to follow. But your given 'conclusion', that the one you visited was ready, is nothing short of the classic example of (accepting the hits, and ignoring the misses). Otherwise, JW's would have a 100% success rate; as they would only go to the houses who prayed for such.
Its not about the numbers and never has been.....God's people have always been in the minority. The whole nation of Israel rejected the son of God and had him executed, save for a few thousand individuals who did receive him as Messiah.
Why else would Jesus say...
"Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.”​
God wants quality not quantity. He does not need us...we need him, and that is something too many people ignore in their fault finding.
POI wrote:
Jemima wrote:Sorry to disappoint you, but our door to door ministry is only one avenue of our preaching work. (Matthew 10:11-14) It has been more successful than you realise and Bible studies are being conducted all over the world with many requests being answered from our website every day as people seek answers to their Bible questions. But we do not expect a 100% success rate....i
If God restricts answered prayer to JW's reaching and acquiring new members, then God must not answer very much prayer there either. --- As evidence by the very slowly growing number of JW's. Think about it... There currently exists about 8 million JW's world wide. From my understanding, you are to proselytize. All each of you would need to do, is successfully convert one new member a year ---> for the JW population to double in size.

Thus, I render your claims of success dismal, at best. So no, it is not more successful than I realize:)
You see, you assume things which are not true.....all because you have doubted even God's existence. Once again James addresses this dilemma.
"So if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching, and it will be given him. 6 But let him keep asking in faith, not doubting at all, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. 7 In fact, that man should not expect to receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways."

This is the time for decisions and the courage of our convictions. If God exists and he has shown me so many times that he does, then we must keep our faith strong without wavering, otherwise we can get tossed about with the opinions of others and become lost in that restless sea of human thinking.

Asking in faith, requires that we know what to ask for.
"Do not be anxious over anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known to God; 7 and the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and your mental powers by means of Christ Jesus."

Those who have this kind of access to God in prayer understand the limitations of the present system of things....and our prayers are not just selfishly concerned with our own salvation but in offering our hope to others in the hope that they too can experience this peace.
Always what I post is my opinion, according to my understanding.

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Re: Faith Heaing?

Post #83

Post by brunumb »

Jemima wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:04 pm If the faith healers of the world were truly from God then why would we need hospitals and medicines to treat sick people?
We need hospitals, doctors and nurses simply because there are no faith healers and no gods weaving their magical healing spells on selected recipients. By the way, it's funny how God created parasites that need to suck human blood to survive and thrive, but objected to people sharing their blood with fellow human beings to save their lives. I reckon the geriatrics running the show in the Watchtower will buckle soon and 'receive a revelation' that changes the JW position on blood transfusions. A prophecy?
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Re: Faith Heaing?

Post #84

Post by POI »

brunumb wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:00 am
Jemima wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:04 pm If the faith healers of the world were truly from God then why would we need hospitals and medicines to treat sick people?
We need hospitals, doctors and nurses simply because there are no faith healers and no gods weaving their magical healing spells on selected recipients. By the way, it's funny how God created parasites that need to suck human blood to survive and thrive, but objected to people sharing their blood with fellow human beings to save their lives. I reckon the geriatrics running the show in the Watchtower will buckle soon and 'receive a revelation' that changes the JW position on blood transfusions. A prophecy?

Nah, there's no time for that. Don't you know? The end times are right around the corner :)

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Re: Faith Heaing?

Post #85

Post by POI »

Jemima wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:04 pm If the faith healers of the world were truly from God then why would we need hospitals and medicines to treat sick people? They would only need one healer in every hospital and people would walk, or be carried in sick, and walk out 100% cured.....does that happen? Do we see anyone raising dead people?
Its not the time for that yet...the devil must first be put away and according to scripture, that is not too far away. (Revelation 20:1-3)
If so, where does it say that God no longer answers such prayer? All prayers asked according to God's will are heard.....for some the answer is "no, not now".
For people with CP, the answer is perpetually no. For cancer, the answer looks to sometimes be yes? Are all the cancer survivors mistaken? Are they actually only cured, or go into remission, by natural causes alone?

Does Revelation 20:1-3 instruct that the reader should ignore the following Verses for now, until Satan is removed? --> (Matthew 7:7), (Matthew 21:22), (Mark 11:24), (John 14:13-14), (John 16:23). I'll answer here preemptively, NO. :)
Jemima wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:04 pm
POI wrote:If God exists, He would know me. He would know why I do not believe. He would also know that perpetually not answering such prayer request(s) will further cement my lack in faith/hope to His mere asserted existence.
He will also know that your expectations have been created by his enemy and will endeavour to correct your thinking, if you let him. No one can cement your faith/hope but you. But first you have to have the right attitude in seeking God in the first place. You have to want to get to know him without judging him on the basis of the misinformation that you were given by those who misrepresented him to you.
Again, with the 'having the right attitude'. I question His mere existence. A change in attitude has nothing to do with doubt of His mere existence. See below...
Jemima wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:04 pm
POI wrote:Your response here is patently false. Satan knows God exists. He still chose to rebel. I don't think He even exists. At present, I think it's all just a story line. To state that you must first 'get your mind right', is incorrect. Satan never had His mind right. Neither did Sal of Tarsus, before he was contacted By God and later converted ;) Please try another argument.
"Another argument" will not work if there is no understanding of the first one.
Satan and Saul both operated out of their own free will according to their own evaluation of things.
One was humble enough to be corrected, but the devil was never humble to begin with. His agenda was to gain worship for himself and he didn't care what he had to sacrifice to obtain it.

The story told in the Bible is one of a magnificent spirit creature who, if he ever desired worship didn't have anyone in existence who could see him as a god. His fellow angels were all likewise magnificent, so it was only with the creation of man that satan made himself the devil by orchestrating a defection of the only creatures in existence who could see him as a god....intelligent but with little power....innocent and easily manipulated.

Temptations can come from both inside and outside of ourselves as James explains it...
"When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. 14 But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death." (James 1:13-15)
Again, I doubt His existence. Satan does not. Your argument fails. Why? I'm telling you that my doubt for His mere existence exists because is see Him not answering prayers. Like I keep saying, if I saw one prayer answered, which removed someone's CP, I would likely then conclude He exists.

Sure, my attitude might prevent me from wanting to follow Him, but that is another argument all together.

Your argument looks to be that God does not answer prayers in healing. And yet, you have not offered reason as to why God does not heal?
Jemima wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:04 pm
POI wrote: You can't be serious? I would imagine the JW conversion rate, from going door to door, is pretty dang low. I would imagine the success rate is somewhere around that of a cold caller, at best. But it must sure feel nice when you get one to follow. But your given 'conclusion', that the one you visited was ready, is nothing short of the classic example of (accepting the hits, and ignoring the misses). Otherwise, JW's would have a 100% success rate; as they would only go to the houses who prayed for such.
Its not about the numbers and never has been.....God's people have always been in the minority. The whole nation of Israel rejected the son of God and had him executed, save for a few thousand individuals who did receive him as Messiah.
Why else would Jesus say...
"Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.”​
God wants quality not quantity. He does not need us...we need him, and that is something too many people ignore in their fault finding.
Well then, you might want to retract what you stated prior (i.e.) "Sorry to disappoint you, but our door to door ministry is only one avenue of our preaching work. (Matthew 10:11-14) It has been more successful than you realise and Bible studies are being conducted all over the world with many requests being answered from our website every day as people seek answers to their Bible questions. But we do not expect a 100% (success) rate"

Success would be measured by a climb in followers to "the right path" (i.e.) the JW position. Not a virtual stalemate, or a decline.

I have a simple solution.... If God answered prayer, many would then believe. Sure, many may not opt to follow, but at least the question of His mere existence would be more-so settled. You would still have the free will to reject Him, like Satan.
Jemima wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:04 pm
POI wrote:
Jemima wrote:Sorry to disappoint you, but our door to door ministry is only one avenue of our preaching work. (Matthew 10:11-14) It has been more successful than you realise and Bible studies are being conducted all over the world with many requests being answered from our website every day as people seek answers to their Bible questions. But we do not expect a 100% success rate....i
If God restricts answered prayer to JW's reaching and acquiring new members, then God must not answer very much prayer there either. --- As evidence by the very slowly growing number of JW's. Think about it... There currently exists about 8 million JW's world wide. From my understanding, you are to proselytize. All each of you would need to do, is successfully convert one new member a year ---> for the JW population to double in size.

Thus, I render your claims of success dismal, at best. So no, it is not more successful than I realize:)
You see, you assume things which are not true.....all because you have doubted even God's existence. Once again James addresses this dilemma.
"So if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching, and it will be given him. 6 But let him keep asking in faith, not doubting at all, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. 7 In fact, that man should not expect to receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways."

This is the time for decisions and the courage of our convictions. If God exists and he has shown me so many times that he does, then we must keep our faith strong without wavering, otherwise we can get tossed about with the opinions of others and become lost in that restless sea of human thinking.

Asking in faith, requires that we know what to ask for.
"Do not be anxious over anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known to God; 7 and the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and your mental powers by means of Christ Jesus."

Those who have this kind of access to God in prayer understand the limitations of the present system of things....and our prayers are not just selfishly concerned with our own salvation but in offering our hope to others in the hope that they too can experience this peace.
Please note what you stated above in bold. You state He has shown you that He does. Being shown could mean answered prayer, right?. Being shown that God answers prayer would then no longer require 'faith' of His mere existence.

And in regards to 'faith', looks like the faith of the JW's are not very strong. This is evidence by the numbers of your congregation. They are not really going up. And as @brunumb stated; members are leaving at around the same rate as new converts. Does God not want as many to follow as possible? If He does, then answered prayer might be a great start?

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Re: Faith Heaing?

Post #86

Post by Diagoras »

Jemima wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:04 pmThe story told in the Bible is one of a magnificent spirit creature who, if he ever desired worship didn't have anyone in existence who could see him as a god.
<bolding mine>

Maybe going slightly off-topic here (apologies), but if you did some research into the myth origins of Lucifer, you'd discover that Christianity simply adopted a much older story for its own purpose.

Wikipedia wrote:The motif of a heavenly being striving for the highest seat of heaven only to be cast down to the underworld has its origins in the motions of the planet Venus, known as the morning star.
Link to article

To return to the topic, here's a fact-based article which provides evidence that faith healing has caused children to have died who might have been expected to live if they'd received 'normal' medical care.

The evidence clearly supports the position that faith healing cannot be relied upon to save lives.

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Re: Faith Heaing?

Post #87

Post by brunumb »

POI wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:18 am Nah, there's no time for that. Don't you know? The end times are right around the corner
Must be a pretty big corner because they keep on expanding their portfolio of long term investment in property around the world. :?
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Re: Faith Heaing?

Post #88

Post by Jemima »

[Replying to POI in post #85]
For people with CP, the answer is perpetually no. For cancer, the answer looks to sometimes be yes? Are all the cancer survivors mistaken? Are they actually only cured, or go into remission, by natural causes alone?
The only thing that can cure cancer is a person's own immune system. I had a friend who was given a brain scan for something unrelated, only to be told that she had had a tumor but that her immune system had dealt with it. She had been on a super immune booster diet at the time, unaware that she even had a tumor. So some people can have cancer and their immune system takes it out before it has a chance to replicate and spread. Suppressed immunity can come from a variety of reasons and in the current pandemic, those with suppressed immunity will pick up the virus and will not be able to fight it off....others will have only mild symptoms and get well in a couple of weeks....still others no symptoms at all.
Does Revelation 20:1-3 instruct that the reader should ignore the following Verses for now, until Satan is removed? --> (Matthew 7:7), (Matthew 21:22), (Mark 11:24), (John 14:13-14), (John 16:23). I'll answer here preemptively, NO.
I don't believe that Revelation 20:1-3 has taken place yet, but Revelation 12:7-12 has. The devil's "short period of time" is almost up...he is pulling out all the stops now, rather than just subtle deception, he is truly right in our faces, hitting us with one disaster after another. It seems as if we don't get a break in between and some are getting several hits all at once. When has life been this hard for the current generation?

As for the scriptures you cited....all of them were addressed to those in the first century who were witnesses of the miracles and receivers of them. But as Paul warned, the apostolic times would end, and so would the miracles for now. "Faith, hope and love" would replace them until the Kingdom rules this earth.
I doubt His existence. Satan does not. Your argument fails. Why? I'm telling you that my doubt for His mere existence exists because is see Him not answering prayers. Like I keep saying, if I saw one prayer answered, which removed someone's CP, I would likely then conclude He exists.
I have tried to explain the situation but I'm apparently not getting the message across.....this is not the age of miracles. NO ONE is getting healed at this time because those things are connected to the promises of the Kingdom. When the Kingdom "comes" as Jesus said it would, then and only then will we see healing on a mass scale like it was done in the first century. (Revelation 21:3-4) The "former things" are still with us now, but when these things are "done away with", there will be no limit to their implementation.
Your argument looks to be that God does not answer prayers in healing. And yet, you have not offered reason as to why God does not heal?
But I have several times...I can only ask that you go back and read my previous responses. This world was handed over to the devil to prove his claim that humans are better off without God and his rules.
Well then, you might want to retract what you stated prior (i.e.) "Sorry to disappoint you, but our door to door ministry is only one avenue of our preaching work. (Matthew 10:11-14) It has been more successful than you realise and Bible studies are being conducted all over the world with many requests being answered from our website every day as people seek answers to their Bible questions. But we do not expect a 100% (success) rate"

Success would be measured by a climb in followers to "the right path" (i.e.) the JW position. Not a virtual stalemate, or a decline.
Do you know anything about how God liberated the Israelites from slavery in Egypt? If you do then you would know that even though these were his chosen people, only two individuals out of all the thousands who escaped, actually made it into the Promised Land......do you know why? Disobedience.
These saw God miracles first hand and still disobeyed him. The miracles were not enough, so even if your saw miracles today, like Israel did and they happened every day for 40 years, it would still not guarantee that you would love God enough to obey his rules.

Seriously, God is not so desperate for worshippers that he needs to give us what we personally want in order for him to bribe us into worshipping him.
He has something we need and it requires qualifications in order to obtain what he is offering us. Will granting wishes make him anything more than a Grand Magician? He is the eternal Sovereign of the Universe and if we qualify for citizenship in his Kingdom, then and only then, will we be granted the desires of our heart. Remaining faithful when all around you are not, isn't easy, but it has its rewards. (Psalm 145:16)
I have a simple solution.... If God answered prayer, many would then believe. Sure, many may not opt to follow, but at least the question of His mere existence would be more-so settled. You would still have the free will to reject Him, like Satan.
I don't think that God is subject to emotional blackmail......I couldn't respect him if he was. Saying to God "give me what I want or I won't worship you" is a rather ridiculous stance to take at this juncture especially. We have to qualify for him to reward us, because he will never alter his purpose to qualify for our worship. You cannot make demands of the Creator as if he somehow cannot do without us. He did without us for a very long time.

If we don't even believe that he exists, then why expect anything from him? He owes us nothing and has given us everything.....even life itself. Do you know the odds against any one of us even being born? They are astronomical!
Please note what you stated above in bold. You state He has shown you that He does. Being shown could mean answered prayer, right? Being shown that God answers prayer would then no longer require 'faith' of His mere existence.
That is a rather odd way of looking at things IMO, but the answers to my prayers have been by way of scripture in advice on how to handle a problem....and circumstances that unfolded in answer to a prayer that led me in the right direction. I expect no miracles but I am grateful for God's direction when I come to making an important decision.....he has never steered me in the wrong direction. Human wisdom changes like the seasons, but God's direction never does.

If the Bible was a book of human wisdom, it would not be consistent throughout many generations....but its consistency proves that it is a book for all generations from the Creator. Like the instruction manual from a manufacturer.....who knows their product better than the one who made it?
And in regards to 'faith', looks like the faith of the JW's are not very strong. This is evidence by the numbers of your congregation. They are not really going up. And as @brunumb stated; members are leaving at around the same rate as new converts. Does God not want as many to follow as possible? If He does, then answered prayer might be a great start?
Where do you get the idea that its about the numbers? As I mentioned before its about the "quality" not the "quantity"......God does not need us...we need him. He will not adjust to suit us...it is we who must adjust to suit him.....that is our choice.

His plans will go ahead with us or without us....I want to be included in them.
Always what I post is my opinion, according to my understanding.

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Re: Faith Heaing?

Post #89

Post by Tcg »

Jemima wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:27 am Do you know the odds against any one of us even being born? They are astronomical!
Now that we have been born, the odds that we would be born is 100%. This is true of all things that have happened. The odds that they would happen, given that they have, is 100%.


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To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Faith Heaing?

Post #90

Post by Tcg »

brunumb wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:20 pm
POI wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:21 pm From my understanding, you are to proselytize. All each of you would need to do, is successfully convert one new member a year ---> for the JW population to double in size.
The trouble is that they are losing members at about the same rate as they are gaining new ones. As their dreadful treatment of people through shunning and ignoring sexual abuse becomes more public, I think the tide will shift in favour of the former.
I tend to not appreciate posts that include references to YouTube videos. This one however is too powerful to ignore:

Escaping Jehovah's Witnesses: Inside the dangerous world of a brutal religion:




Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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