When did Satan fall?

[YEC]

When did Satan Fall?

Some people seem to think that it was pre-creation. In fact some even think it was in a pre-Genesis world that had become formless and void due to the fall....BUT...the following indicates that Satan walked in the Garden of Eden in a pre-fallen state. What do you think?

EZE 28:12 "Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "' You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

EZE 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared.

EZE 28:14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones.

EZE 28:15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.

EZE 28:16 Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones.

EZE 28:17 Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings.

EZE 28:18 By your many sins and dishonest trade you have desecrated your sanctuaries. So I made a fire come out from you, and it consumed you, and I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching.

EZE 28:19 All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more.'"

Note:The king of Tyre..this section with its superhuman references apparently describes someone than the human ruler of Tyre: namely Satan.
ref Ryrie

[YEC]

Satan is not even a proper name. It means 'adversary'. The preaching of the gospel by the disciples (with the power of Gods spirit) brought liberty. Things that were adversarial to God fell before his power.

1PE 5:8 Be self-controlled and alert. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

[snowman]

YEC asked

Are you going to tell us?

Maybe we should consider Paul who talked about being naked? Maybe there are clues to how he and others understood that?

You wrote

DEU 30:19 This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.

JOS 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

JAM 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

JAM 4:8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

YEC, I was not agruing against our will and choices. I believe we have choice. What do you mean when you say that our choices are free? Do you mean that they are uncaused and have not limitations? Do you mean that our choices are not influenced? Certianly I won't argue that we have choices.

REV 12:9 The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Well, we know from the Eden story that it was the serpent who tempted A&E to disobey God. He was cursed to eat dust of the earth. Do you remember where James says this temptation comes from?

1PE 5:8 Be self-controlled and alert. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

It may be beneficial to read the whole of Peters book. In it he talks about them living a holy life and abstaining from certian things. Suffering was an issue for him. If they were to suffer, then suffer for what is done in righteousness. They were called upon to live a lifestyle in accordance to Gods ways and keep themselves from being falsely accused by their adversaries.

[Deborah]

The Book of Enoch suggests that Satin fell, because he refused to worship
Adam, a second angel. Satin states that he was made before Adam therefore Adam should worship him. Satin and his followers refused to worship Adam.

[Squall]

The Book of Enoch suggests that Satin fell, because he refused to worship
Adam, a second angel. Satin states that he was made before Adam therefore Adam should worship him. Satin and his followers refused to worship Adam.

This sounds alot like the Muslim account of Satan only he might have been a Jinn or spirit made from fire instead of an angel

[axeplayer]

i had always been showed that Satan had fallen in the time inbetween Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 (i'm not a long-day creationist), for example, God created one earth (1:1), satan fell, and "now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the spirit of God was hovering over the waters." (1:2) thats just what i think.

[snowman]

As far as I know, there is not one single scripture that teaches that 'satan' or 'lucifer' fell at all....but he (the serpent) has always been what he was from the beginning.

[Bro Dave]

Satin was Lucifers administrative assistant, and the "fall" was due to Lucifers ego, which simply got the better of him. He became convinced that Gods plan was "flawed", and he had a better version. He did manage to persuade our planetary prince at the time, one Calagastia, and his assistant Dalagastia to default too. Lucifer, literally a being of light, was so respected, he mislead many celestial personalities, including many Angels. Altogether, they brought down 35 planets, all of which were placed in quarantine.
There has been much confusion over all this, and that is why it is now being cleared up. Notice, by the way, it was not we who messed up!

The entire story is fascinating, even if you refuse to accept it. It is available in the Urantia Book for those who are curious.

Bro Dave

[perplexed101]

Satin was Lucifers administrative assistant, and the "fall" was due to Lucifers ego, which simply got the better of him. He became convinced that Gods plan was "flawed", and he had a better version. He did manage to persuade our planetary prince at the time, one Calagastia, and his assistant Dalagastia to default too. Lucifer, literally a being of light, was so respected, he mislead many celestial personalities, including many Angels. Altogether, they brought down 35 planets, all of which were placed in quarantine.
There has been much confusion over all this, and that is why it is now being cleared up. Notice, by the way, it was not we who messed up!

The entire story is fascinating, even if you refuse to accept it. It is available in the Urantia Book for those who are curious.

Bro Dave

Oddly enough, Lucifer is mentioned only once and is a Latin (name) term found in Isaiah...Latin translation in from hebrew text? and here is more about it:

http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml

from: heleyl, ben shachar meaning shining one, son of dawn... and from there they over emphesized by depicting a fallen Babylonian king and inserting by translation the Latin name Lucifer to it.

As far as Satan goes though, How he became something that resembles more like a prosecutor and not on the people's behalf was initially how Deborah described. Either i didnt read it right or what but it seems there were two perspective thoughts:

two perspective thoughts:

1. Satan kneeling before God's creation because of God's handiwork

2. Satan kneeling before Adam who was created from the dust of the earth and came after Satan

...and Satan looked at it from the latter perspective