The right questions...

[Waterfall]

Namaskaram...

Are the right questions to be found in the Bible? They just seems to accept "the stories" and not ask questions? I do not believe in the story about Adam and Eve and have some questions for those who does, because why did Adam and Eve put children into this world of suffering and death? Did God not explain things to them? Wait with children til you get (back) to Paradise? Just live and die and I will recreate you? Commit suicide? Why not? 930 years is a long time to wait with sex? Paradise is just around the corner? You just have to die first? Then everything will be alright? You will wake up in Paradise and can have all the sex in the world you want? And nobody else has to suffer and die? Good deal? For inspiration...









Your friend forever

Waterfall

[bjs1]

In my world this is life after death, though not reincarnation as it is normally understood. I am a Christian, and I believe that after death there is eternal life with my God.

However, you may be correct that I do not understand your meaning. If this is a world of suffering, how do you find solace in reincarnation? Wouldn’t that mean that your children will be reborn into this world for even more suffering?

[TRANSPONDER]

In my world this is life after death, though not reincarnation as it is normally understood. I am a Christian, and I believe that after death there is eternal life with my God.

However, you may be correct that I do not understand your meaning. If this is a world of suffering, how do you find solace in reincarnation? Wouldn’t that mean that your children will be reborn into this world for even more suffering?

Good question. Buddhism teaches that the goal of the religion is to escape rebirth (another term for reincarnation) but it is true that people who believe in reincarnation see the rebirth as a benefit, not a punishment, and the donations and good deeds are intended to get the best life possible next time.

But if this life and world is suffering, why do we want that? I'd guess because this life is good if it ain't bad and the fear of death makes us want a life after it at least, and a better one than average if we can buy it with religious offerings. That seems to be the sales pitch of the various religions, and is what the Buddhist believers tell themselves they are getting even if it isn't what they are selling.

[Waterfall]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #11]

Namaskaram bjs1

I am not saying there is nothing else but suffering and death. But is Paradise not better than this world? How to get there? Why do you not like my deal with Adam and Eve? Paradise is just around the corner? You just have to die first? Do you think children was their ticket (back) to Paradise? What came out of that? More suffering and death? Could it have been avoided? Wait with children til you get (back) to Paradise? Why did God not say that? I do not believe that God created the first humans and I do not believe there is sex in Paradise/Heaven. I believe we have a soul/spirit that survives death and that we reincarnate (only as humans) until we have learned the things there is to learn in this world. We are here to love - not to hate. As you sow, you shall reap. Seek and you shall find. There are better books to read than the Bible. See post #3.

For inspiration...

https://isha.sadhguru.org/in/en/wisdom/ ... f-sadhguru

What do you think about him...



Your friend forever

Waterfall

[TRANSPONDER]

So far as I gather the Eden paradise was on earth and they lost it and the Jewish escatology is that one day people will get their eternal life back under the rule of God's messiah on earth.

The Paradise is more of a Christian belief, and no doubt they reckon they know better than the Jews.

But what atheism offers is the paradise for all. The afterlife, whatever it is, is open to all. Birth does not ask to see your religious membership card, when you get born, not should it be an 'admit one' situation after we die. If there is an afterlife, it is one we all get and not just those who lucked out on their religion.

On the other hand, if (as seems more in accord with the evidence) there is nothing after death but joining the Taoist stream of reality as a drop that becomes one with the stream, no point in crying for the moon. We have the sun of this life, and I suggest we enjoy the sunlight while we can.

Judging but the common sense your Swami was talking last vid I watched I might guess he'd say the same. He was getting there. Yes, with the best intentions, Holy wars will happen. What about Humanism? It let's people put up their statues and nobody does anything to it because it is in their temple and does not intrude on others, as the society is humanist. And what is right, what is imposed, it is the global best we can have on offer and we see what the world has chosen - technology and science, warts and all. and their own religions have hardly changed. Many religions, one science. Perhaps by 'Spirituality' perhaps our sadhu means morally ethical humanism. Maybe.

[Waterfall]

Namaskaram TRANSPONDER

So far as I gather the Eden paradise was on earth and they lost it and the Jewish escatology is that one day people will get their eternal life back under the rule of God's messiah on earth.

The Paradise is more of a Christian belief, and no doubt they reckon they know better than the Jews.

But what atheism offers is the paradise for all. The afterlife, whatever it is, is open to all. Birth does not ask to see your religious membership card, when you get born, not should it be an 'admit one' situation after we die. If there is an afterlife, it is one we all get and not just those who lucked out on their religion.

On the other hand, if (as seems more in accord with the evidence) there is nothing after death but joining the Taoist stream of reality as a drop that becomes one with the stream, no point in crying for the moon. We have the sun of this life, and I suggest we enjoy the sunlight while we can.

Judging but the common sense your Swami was talking last vid I watched I might guess he'd say the same. He was getting there. Yes, with the best intentions, Holy wars will happen. What about Humanism? It let's people put up their statues and nobody does anything to it because it is in their temple and does not intrude on others, as the society is humanist. And what is right, what is imposed, it is the global best we can have on offer and we see what the world has chosen - technology and science, warts and all. and their own religions have hardly changed. Many religions, one science. Perhaps by 'Spirituality' perhaps our sadhu means morally ethical humanism. Maybe.

I like that you have an open mind. So let us talk about atheism. Is atheism the answer to our prayers? I will come up with some questions. Thanks again for your post Love, peace and understanding...



Your friend forever

Waterfall

[TRANSPONDER]

Namaskaram TRANSPONDER

So far as I gather the Eden paradise was on earth and they lost it and the Jewish escatology is that one day people will get their eternal life back under the rule of God's messiah on earth.

The Paradise is more of a Christian belief, and no doubt they reckon they know better than the Jews.

But what atheism offers is the paradise for all. The afterlife, whatever it is, is open to all. Birth does not ask to see your religious membership card, when you get born, not should it be an 'admit one' situation after we die. If there is an afterlife, it is one we all get and not just those who lucked out on their religion.

On the other hand, if (as seems more in accord with the evidence) there is nothing after death but joining the Taoist stream of reality as a drop that becomes one with the stream, no point in crying for the moon. We have the sun of this life, and I suggest we enjoy the sunlight while we can.

Judging but the common sense your Swami was talking last vid I watched I might guess he'd say the same. He was getting there. Yes, with the best intentions, Holy wars will happen. What about Humanism? It let's people put up their statues and nobody does anything to it because it is in their temple and does not intrude on others, as the society is humanist. And what is right, what is imposed, it is the global best we can have on offer and we see what the world has chosen - technology and science, warts and all. and their own religions have hardly changed. Many religions, one science. Perhaps by 'Spirituality' perhaps our sadhu means morally ethical humanism. Maybe.

I like that you have an open mind. So let us talk about atheism. Is atheism the answer to our prayers? I will come up with some questions. Thanks again for your post Love, peace and understanding...



Your friend forever

Waterfall

First thing, apologies for spelling 'lets' with an apostrophe. It's an instinctive thing I missed correcting. Then Atheism is a position of non belief in any gods. It is a response to the god - claim and atheists do not buy it, either for kneejerk in the street (it's always alarming when people do that), or because of thinking about it. Atheism is no more than that. It is not a religion, a philosophy, mindset or worldview (though rationalism and humanism is or are) and not a philosophy. Thus it is like deep time geology vs. Young Earth geology. It is a rejection of the 6 day creation (in respect of that claim) and does not address world hunger or what to do about people trafficking. It is pointless to ask of atheism whether electric cars are good because they cut oil use or bad because they use lithium batteries. That is not what atheism does.

You can ask questions of humanism, to which atheists normally gravitate. Deconvert stories tend to show a shift from rightwing views to liberal almost overnight. Thus discussion of social problem from a humanist standpoint makes sense, though it is tangental to the god - claims. Similarly, evolution, cosmology and Geology is tangental to one claim - the creation as described in Genesis. Apart from that it saying nothing about gods other than so far it shows no need for one.

So I am willing to discuss the validity of the atheist response to the god - claim, and a response to the Morality argument for a god or the problem of evil in the context of refuting 'evidence' for a god of any kind, but atheism as such does not claim to be a social, philosophical or political system offering solutions to world problems, though Humanism probably is. Atheism ('Thinking' atheism) is no more than considering the arguments for a god and deciding they are not good enough.

[Waterfall]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #16]

Namaskaram TRANSPONDER

In my world there is life after death and reincarnation. That is why I can live with anything that happens to my child. Can atheist say the same thing? What can they live with? And why? Can there be life after death and reincarnation without God? If we do not put children into this world of suffering and death (I am not saying there is nothing else but suffering and death) then there is nothing more to talk about = the story ends. To keep the story going we have to talk about children and love, mercy and justice. We have to come up with a childplan. We have to think like God - the highest consciousness/intelligence. For inspiration...

Come back my soul,
How much longer will
You linger in the garden of deceit?
I have sent you a hundred messages
I have shown you a hundred ways
Either you never read them
Or you ignore my advice.
Come back my soul, do not waste
Time with the cold-hearted
They do not know your worth.
Why do you seek water When you are the stream?
Have you forgotten?
You are the king's falcon,
You are a ray of the Beloved,
A divine wonder!
Rumi

Your friend forever

Waterfall

[TRANSPONDER]

While atheism is just no -belief in any god -claim, yes, of course atheists have to make decisions and come to conclusions in the light of such non - belief.

A postulated afterlife is irrelevant. There might be one, there might not be. The best bet is to live this life like it is the only one. Anything more than that is Extra.

Believers do of course wonder what good atheists find in life. Well, there must be something to it, or why would they be so darned eager to believe in another one after they die? As to bringing children into the world...well, there are a lot of factors, and few of them rational. The fact is that an atheist may decide on no kids. They may decide on some. But the fact is that people have them no matter whether the Life is considered a lottery win or a prison sentence.

It seems to be that what it comes down to is, this is Life and we and a lot of kids are stuck with it. So the obvious thing and the only valid thing I can see is to make this life better for us, them and the ones to come, as much as we can. Others may prefer to see this as a vale of tears and long for the life to come. It is just as well that Somebody put restrictions in their religions to penalise anyone who tries to short -cut to the afterlife, or they'd all be throwing themselves and their kids under buses.

[Waterfall]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #18]

Namaskaram TRANSPONDER

Let me try and ask some questions and see if we can get any closer to the truth. To atheists who consider children. Maybe your child will end up in a war and be tortured to death. How to live with that? How do you justifie it? You knew it could happen and still you did it? Why? Because you wanted a child like the theists? I would not dare to put children into this world if there was no life after death and reincarnation. To me that would be very stupid. My child (a girl) is 25 years old now and have no interest in religion/God. But I hope to have many conversations with her about life when she is ready to it. She might be an atheist now. But her boyfriend is spiritual, so who knows what comes out of that combination. I just love her. For inspiration...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5WM5yIe890

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71huh17NqaI









Your friend forever

Waterfall

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Waterfall in post #19]

To someone who fears to go out of doors because he might be hit by a car, they are not living, but merely existing. Risks, struggle danger, or at least getting out of your comfort zone, is what makes it worth while. It's why the money spent on research and achievement is not wasted in my view as pushing on is what makes us human. Opting out may make up spiritual - giving all that up and just letting time slip away...I'm not going to diss that, but it is not for everyone.

So I get the point. to spare children the hurts they are going to get, one might want to spare them that. But nature does what it does and even if you talked me into no kids, others will do it so our job is to try to make sure the bad doesn't happen.

Humanism aside, if atheism has anything to say, it is ending religion means one less thing to fight about.