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Replying to The Tanager in post #189]
I can understand your confusion on what I meant. Sorry I wasn’t clearer. We do experience the actual shape of the earth, in the sense that if we travel around the globe we don’t, for example, fall off a flat edge, among many other ways. That’s the kind of thing I meant.
Would you agree that we all objectively experience the facts that come from the actual shape being what it is? Or do you think some people actually experience it as flat and, for instance, could fall off the edge?
How would I know?
More importantly, it does not matter to me what the shape of earth (or the biblical God) might be, because knowing such does not answer whether I exist within a created thing or not.
The experience of the thing is subjective and the thing is undeniable for that.
I agree with you that all of our experiences are subjective in the sense that we are the one having them with our mix of perceptions, feelings, etc. We are the subjects experiencing reality. That’s one sense. In this sense, an objective experience of reality seems a logical impossibility.
Indeed.
But we also experience subjective and objective truths of reality. The shape of the earth is the same to both of us. The taste of Brown Butter Bourbon Truffle ice cream may be different between us.
I cannot agree that the shape of the earth is an objective truth of reality which is the same for both of us. How can we know and even if we can know, how is that not subjective knowledge about what we perceive (as individuals) of an objective experience?
Subjective, in this sense, means something like the definition bge offered earlier.
What was bge's definition offered earlier?
I was using the term in its traditional philosophical sense.
What sense is that then?
If God exists and is omniscient, then it would also be his belief that the earth is spherical instead of flat.
Why would it be God's belief? Wouldn't it be God's knowledge? Why confuse things by injecting the conflation of words which have their particular separate meanings?
That doesn’t make physical shape a subjective feature of reality, though. If God exists and created the world, then he is responsible for the physical shape the earth has. God would be responsible for an objective fact because of how he wanted to create that thing. It would be the same with objective morality, not because of God’s opinion but because of God’s act of creation.
We exist in an experience which allows for us to do whatever we want in relation to that which is being experience (subjectively) so the act of creation re the thing created and being experienced allowing for that, appears to contradict your assertion that morality is within the"act" of creating the "thing".
Rather, it appears that what we do with our experience in the thing, is governed by collective humanity who learn through experience the best way to do things (or not) and what helps us to decide will have something to do with the created thing.
Is that what you a trying to portray re "because of God’s act of creation" that within the creation being experience, consequence is learned?
Even so, all of this only requires subjectivity re the object (thing) created whether in its parts (how we experience the planet) or as a whole (how God might experience a planet.)
Morality also doesn't appear to be able to assist in my knowing whether we exist within a created thing, or not.