Us

[nobspeople]

So as to not sidetrack the 'dominion' thread, who are the 'us' in the below:
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
For discussion:
If there was only one god before creation (as many claim), who is the 'us' being referred to here?
Does god see itself in the plural?
Was jesus there with god?
Were there other gods there at the same time?
Or, if you like, how do YOU justify the 'us' here, in this quote?

[nobspeople]

So as to not sidetrack the 'dominion' thread, who are the 'us' in the below:
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

The council of gods from Job 1:6, called the "sons of the gods" in the same way that people are referred to as "sons of (the) humanity" in Genesis 11:5.

What are, or who are, part of this council?

[nobspeople]

Peace to you,

So as to not sidetrack the 'dominion' thread, who are the 'us' in the below:
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
For discussion:
If there was only one god before creation (as many claim), who is the 'us' being referred to here?
Does god see itself in the plural?
Was jesus there with god?
Were there other gods there at the same time?
Or, if you like, how do YOU justify the 'us' here, in this quote?

The 'us' is God and His Son. God is speaking to His Son (to Christ).

Speaking of the Word (who is Christ), in John 1:

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it..

And,

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

(note also that Christ is the Light)

Another verse which shows that Christ was there in the 'beginning', that God was speaking to Christ are Paul's words here (1 Corinth 8):


For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many so-called gods and lords), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

ALL things... from God, through Christ.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Thanks for the response. That's the general idea I've been told, but others seem to hold different views. That's not saying one is right and the other not, however.

[theophile]

Peace to you,

So as to not sidetrack the 'dominion' thread, who are the 'us' in the below:
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
For discussion:
If there was only one god before creation (as many claim), who is the 'us' being referred to here?
Does god see itself in the plural?
Was jesus there with god?
Were there other gods there at the same time?
Or, if you like, how do YOU justify the 'us' here, in this quote?

The 'us' is God and His Son. God is speaking to His Son (to Christ).

Speaking of the Word (who is Christ), in John 1:

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it..

And,

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

(note also that Christ is the Light)

Another verse which shows that Christ was there in the 'beginning', that God was speaking to Christ are Paul's words here (1 Corinth 8):


For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many so-called gods and lords), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

ALL things... from God, through Christ.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Thanks for the response. That's the general idea I've been told, but others seem to hold different views. That's not saying one is right and the other not, however.

My counter response remains, yes, Christ is part of the 'Us', but where did Christ (/the children of God) come from? Are they a product of asexual reproduction on God's part? Or, if we use the Gospels as a clue, does it in fact take two to tango, even for God? In which case, where is the Mary figure in Genesis 1?

John 1 is a fascinating text when you line it up to Genesis 1, that much is certain. But on behalf of all womankind, I think we should be extremely careful of any interpretation that presumes a plenipotent masculine God who has no need of anything feminine.

[nobspeople]

Peace to you,

So as to not sidetrack the 'dominion' thread, who are the 'us' in the below:
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
For discussion:
If there was only one god before creation (as many claim), who is the 'us' being referred to here?
Does god see itself in the plural?
Was jesus there with god?
Were there other gods there at the same time?
Or, if you like, how do YOU justify the 'us' here, in this quote?

The 'us' is God and His Son. God is speaking to His Son (to Christ).

Speaking of the Word (who is Christ), in John 1:

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it..

And,

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

(note also that Christ is the Light)

Another verse which shows that Christ was there in the 'beginning', that God was speaking to Christ are Paul's words here (1 Corinth 8):


For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many so-called gods and lords), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

ALL things... from God, through Christ.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Thanks for the response. That's the general idea I've been told, but others seem to hold different views. That's not saying one is right and the other not, however.

My counter response remains, yes, Christ is part of the 'Us', but where did Christ (/the children of God) come from? Are they a product of asexual reproduction on God's part? Or, if we use the Gospels as a clue, does it in fact take two to tango, even for God? In which case, where is the Mary figure in Genesis 1?

John 1 is a fascinating text when you line it up to Genesis 1, that much is certain. But on behalf of all womankind, I think we should be extremely careful of any interpretation that presumes a plenipotent masculine God who has no need of anything feminine.

I've found that, with god, anything is possible (if the claimants are to be believed). God could be both male and female but neither at the same time, for example (not my claim, repeating what's told to me).
Basically, god isn't bound to any laws humanity or the universe is, much to the chagrin of many who want to put this immortal, ever-being being that is god, in a box (again, repeating claims I've been told).
To the thread topic - the 'us' - it seems that either god had help/someone else there (who or what that may be remains to be seen), god isn't a singular being (think Borg) or the writer and editors had it wrong.

[cms]

In general, when Elohim is used to mean "God," it gets singular verbs and when it means "gods," it gets plural verbs. There's a similar thing going on with the definite article "the elohim" means "the gods" rather than "(the) God."

Difflugia, they may be referring to human rulers ( "You are gods") when used in the plural. The same could be said of the term lord where there is one Lord God and many lords of the earth.

My counter response remains, yes, Christ is part of the 'Us', but where did Christ (/the children of God) come from? Are they a product of asexual reproduction on God's part?

Theophile, I don't think Adam and Eve were the only two people on earth at the time. The "us"could just be the people of God.

Speaking of the Word (who is Christ), in John 1:

Tam, To me, the Word is not a person. The Word or words are something that God says or commands. Even if the Word means Logos, the Logos is logic or reasoning.

[theophile]

My counter response remains, yes, Christ is part of the 'Us', but where did Christ (/the children of God) come from? Are they a product of asexual reproduction on God's part?

Theophile, I don't think Adam and Eve were the only two people on earth at the time. The "us"could just be the people of God.

Yes, I do think it includes the children of God. My issue is more where they came from. Who are the parents, so to speak.

The children of God are the Word made flesh. They are the product of the union of spirit and matter. (God and Mary, to use the example from the Gospels...). There needs to be a 'material' mother - and I think we see her in Genesis 1. Again, it's Tehom / the deep.

Speaking of the Word (who is Christ), in John 1:

Tam, To me, the Word is not a person. The Word or words are something that God says or commands. Even if the Word means Logos, the Logos is logic or reasoning.

I think you are right for what it's worth. There is a subtlety in John 1 that can easily result in a misconnection.

"1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. "

The impulse is to assume that "he" (Christ) is the Word being spoken of in the first verse. But that is not explicit in the text. Per above, I would argue that "he" is in fact the first fruit of the union of God and the deep. He is the light, as John goes on to say. And all things (apart from himself of course and his progenitors) are made through him.

Very tricky stuff indeed.

[theophile]

Peace to you,

So as to not sidetrack the 'dominion' thread, who are the 'us' in the below:
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
For discussion:
If there was only one god before creation (as many claim), who is the 'us' being referred to here?
Does god see itself in the plural?
Was jesus there with god?
Were there other gods there at the same time?
Or, if you like, how do YOU justify the 'us' here, in this quote?

The 'us' is God and His Son. God is speaking to His Son (to Christ).

Speaking of the Word (who is Christ), in John 1:

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it..

And,

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

(note also that Christ is the Light)

Another verse which shows that Christ was there in the 'beginning', that God was speaking to Christ are Paul's words here (1 Corinth 8):


For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many so-called gods and lords), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

ALL things... from God, through Christ.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Thanks for the response. That's the general idea I've been told, but others seem to hold different views. That's not saying one is right and the other not, however.

My counter response remains, yes, Christ is part of the 'Us', but where did Christ (/the children of God) come from? Are they a product of asexual reproduction on God's part? Or, if we use the Gospels as a clue, does it in fact take two to tango, even for God? In which case, where is the Mary figure in Genesis 1?

John 1 is a fascinating text when you line it up to Genesis 1, that much is certain. But on behalf of all womankind, I think we should be extremely careful of any interpretation that presumes a plenipotent masculine God who has no need of anything feminine.

I've found that, with god, anything is possible (if the claimants are to be believed). God could be both male and female but neither at the same time, for example (not my claim, repeating what's told to me).
Basically, god isn't bound to any laws humanity or the universe is, much to the chagrin of many who want to put this immortal, ever-being being that is god, in a box (again, repeating claims I've been told).
To the thread topic - the 'us' - it seems that either god had help/someone else there (who or what that may be remains to be seen), god isn't a singular being (think Borg) or the writer and editors had it wrong.

Oh I get it. I just think there are some difficult facts to reconcile with the view you describe.

To raise another example of such a fact, if the human male-female partnership is in fact the image of God (as Genesis 1 says), we see in Genesis 2 that woman is made to "help" man, which means, to the options you list out above, that God had help / someone else there...

(As is probably already clear, I would argue that the bible is subversively feminist, despite popular belief )

[cms]

Yes, I do think it includes the children of God. My issue is more where they came from. Who are the parents, so to speak.

Other humans. From what I understand "all who are led by the Spirit are sons of God." Those who produce the fruit of the Spirit are in union with God,
and are made in His image.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

So as to not sidetrack the 'dominion' thread, who are the 'us' in the below:
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
For discussion:
If there was only one god before creation (as many claim), who is the 'us' being referred to here?
Does god see itself in the plural?
Was jesus there with god?
Were there other gods there at the same time?
Or, if you like, how do YOU justify the 'us' here, in this quote?

The 'us' is God and His Son. God is speaking to His Son (to Christ).

Speaking of the Word (who is Christ), in John 1:

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it..

And,

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

(note also that Christ is the Light)

Another verse which shows that Christ was there in the 'beginning', that God was speaking to Christ are Paul's words here (1 Corinth 8):


For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many so-called gods and lords), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

ALL things... from God, through Christ.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Thanks for the response. That's the general idea I've been told, but others seem to hold different views. That's not saying one is right and the other not, however.

My counter response remains, yes, Christ is part of the 'Us', but where did Christ (/the children of God) come from? Are they a product of asexual reproduction on God's part? Or, if we use the Gospels as a clue, does it in fact take two to tango, even for God? In which case, where is the Mary figure in Genesis 1?

John 1 is a fascinating text when you line it up to Genesis 1, that much is certain. But on behalf of all womankind, I think we should be extremely careful of any interpretation that presumes a plenipotent masculine God who has no need of anything feminine.

I've found that, with god, anything is possible (if the claimants are to be believed). God could be both male and female but neither at the same time, for example (not my claim, repeating what's told to me).
Basically, god isn't bound to any laws humanity or the universe is, much to the chagrin of many who want to put this immortal, ever-being being that is god, in a box (again, repeating claims I've been told).
To the thread topic - the 'us' - it seems that either god had help/someone else there (who or what that may be remains to be seen), god isn't a singular being (think Borg) or the writer and editors had it wrong.

Oh I get it. I just think there are some difficult facts to reconcile with the view you describe.

To raise another example of such a fact, if the human male-female partnership is in fact the image of God (as Genesis 1 says), we see in Genesis 2 that woman is made to "help" man, which means, to the options you list out above, that God had help / someone else there...

(As is probably already clear, I would argue that the bible is subversively feminist, despite popular belief )

It is not the male-female partnership that was made in the image of God.

It was Adam who was made in the image of God. Adam - being made both male and female, until God took the female out of the male (how else could a 'rib' from Adam create a woman, if the woman had not first been IN the man)?

Just God has both male and female in Him. (the womb, the spiritual realm, is in God)

Even Christ, who is male, is also described in the feminine at least one time (as Wisdom).


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[tam]

Speaking of the Word (who is Christ), in John 1:

Tam, To me, the Word is not a person. The Word or words are something that God says or commands. Even if the Word means Logos, the Logos is logic or reasoning.

I think you are right for what it's worth. There is a subtlety in John 1 that can easily result in a misconnection.

"1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. "

The impulse is to assume that "he" (Christ) is the Word being spoken of in the first verse. But that is not explicit in the text.

It is explicit in the text. You just have to read on a bit:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word [was God]. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

There was a man sent from God whose name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

So you can see that the Word became flesh and is the Son. We can see that Christ is the Light. And in both instances of the Word and the Light, we can see that all things were made through Him.

Christ is the Word being spoken of here (as well as the Word of God who came to the prophets; as well as the Word at Hebrews 4:12). He is the Word and the Light (and the Truth, and the Life, and the Way).



Peace again to you both,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy