The right questions...

Waterfall · Post by **Waterfall** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 3:10 pm

Namaskaram...

Are the right questions to be found in the Bible? They just seems to accept "the stories" and not ask questions? I do not believe in the story about Adam and Eve and have some questions for those who does, because why did Adam and Eve put children into this world of suffering and death? Did God not explain things to them? Wait with children til you get (back) to Paradise? Just live and die and I will recreate you? Commit suicide? Why not? 930 years is a long time to wait with sex? Paradise is just around the corner? You just have to die first? Then everything will be alright? You will wake up in Paradise and can have all the sex in the world you want? And nobody else has to suffer and die? Good deal? For inspiration...

Your friend forever

Waterfall

Waterfall · Post by **Waterfall** » Tue Jul 18, 2023 3:59 pm

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #20]

Namaskaram TRANSPONDER

Ending religion? Is that possible? Why not end atheism and transform all the religions in the process

What is our mission...

https://isha.sadhguru.org/uk/en/sadhguru/mission

For inspiration...

Your friend forever

Waterfall

TRANSPONDER · Post by **TRANSPONDER** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:44 am

Waterfall wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 3:59 pm [Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #20]

Namaskaram TRANSPONDER

Ending religion? Is that possible? Why not end atheism and transform all the religions in the process

What is our mission...

https://isha.sadhguru.org/uk/en/sadhguru/mission

For inspiration...

Your friend forever

Waterfall

Maybe it isn't possible, at least not totally. People love to have Faith in their various beliefs, don't they. However, atheism can tap into the feelgood feeling of being admitted to the Secret that others don't have. And the advantage is that - on evidence and reason - atheism is the most logical stance. I think there is a pleasure akin to solving a puzzle that nobody else seemed able to crack. There is also the release from fear. There is the global inclusiveness of being human, not the divisive exclusiveness of being the only one with the Right Belief and the others are foolish and misguided, if not wicked.

Humanism does not send anyone to hell or punish them for not believing in a cosmic cloud that seems obsessed with our breeding habits. There is an advantage in having understanding of Life, the Universe and Everything as what it is, rather than a huge set of posters from a huge invisible human dressed according to the style of the local religion.

There are very good reasons why atheism is an attractive option, the main one being that, on evidence, it is Right or at least the logical position on Unknowns. It uses logic so avoids the reasoning traps of religious apologetics when they make logical blunders like reversing the burden of proof, appeal to unknowns, double standards and circular argument, and seem unable to accept the logic. Yes, there are many reasons why ending religion rather than atheism would appear to be a desirable option.

I know about the "atheist"d regimes of the past. I also know about the rather alarming divisions in atheism. That is because we may understand what morality is not (something given by a god) but we don't understand (widely) what it is. So there is a lot of progress yet to make, but abandoning old myths and speculations about cosmic entities is progress.

There is something I have noticed, and it has been noticed before - how religions have at times been compared to love (to use one word

) because of the release of dopamine. How it is a social motivator, often related to rule and authority, and how it manifests in theatre and dance, so to speak. Like prayer, it seems done to make the doer feel good, not to connect with a cosmic mind (name your own).

It has also been noted that people seem to be finding the Cosmic Truths in their own heads. Of course they claim to have the transcendent truth downloaded into their skulls or to have a sort of mental hotwire to the Cosmic reality. But that the results all seem to differ suggests that it is the individual minds doing the process. And it does not look good for the religion (or cult) to ignore this obvious fact.

I don't want to make this too long, but I think people can find that atheism is an attractive option once they get past this idea that Something is Lost in abandoning religion. All that is lost is the mental chains. I know the religions and Cults make much of atheism turning its' back on transcendental reality, but I would argue that the fads and cults are the chain. It stops discovery, because it believes it has discovered. Take the origins of Life, or indeed what Morality is. In teaching that we know what dunnit (god) we put an end to the search for the real cause.

Waterfall · Post by **Waterfall** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:29 am

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #22]

Namaskaram TRANSPONDER

Then let us seek the truth and nothing else but the truth

I do not find atheism to be the most logical stance. I can put children into the world because of life after death and reincarnation. What can atheists do? If they cant put children into the world, then they have to convince the theists children to come and join them? What will be their arguments? Your parents made a mistake? There is no life after death and reincarnation? There is no God? We know better? Let us enjoy our life without children? The story ends with atheism? And continues with theism? For inspiration...

Your friend forever

Waterfall

TRANSPONDER · Post by **TRANSPONDER** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:53 am

Waterfall wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:29 am [Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #22]

Namaskaram TRANSPONDER

Then let us seek the truth and nothing else but the truth

I do not find atheism to be the most logical stance. I can put children into the world because of life after death and reincarnation. What can atheists do? If they cant put children into the world, then they have to convince the theists children to come and join them? What will be their arguments? Your parents made a mistake? There is no life after death and reincarnation? There is no God? We know better? Let us enjoy our life without children? The story ends with atheism? And continues with theism? For inspiration...

Your friend forever

Waterfall

Atheists do put children into the worlds, because life is worth living, notably in the West, where thousands try to enter because their own country, though more religious, is not as good, or so I gather. If I think life is not only worth living but is a lottery win, why would I want to deprive children of it? Besides, others who do not give these matters thought still produce kids and we goddless hellspawn have a duty to give them a positive spin on existence, not the ale of tears preamblke with the promise of an afterlife the bait to the hook of religion...if one can pick the right one.

Atheism on the other hand has a Possible (but not likely) afterlife open to everyone, so we tick all boxes, sir, and you don't have to sent a giftcard.

As to Matt Dillahunty, it was distressing that he left or was pushed out of Austin Atheists after he'd made it with his own efforts. I don't know what shenanigans went on and it is a distress, but the leaving was not because he was suddenly convinced that atheism was wrong.

My fiend, I do appreciate the points and questions you put, because I like being challenged.

and it gives us wood to chop.

"Without theism, there would be no atheism" (a brilliant atheist apologist, 2008.) It is a miserable existence on these Forae without Chew toys. It's like an army looking over a deserted battlefield when the enemy had fled.

"Looks like we won again, what do we do now?"

"Go home and do atheist things, I guess."

"Like what?"

"well...look at your reference Bible and mutter 'don't believe that'...and...er...."

Ah - sorry, Nanny Google hath censored it.

Btw I had seen Ramsay learns veggie food. I do have respect and sympathy for the veggies, but though the spirit is willing, the flesh is delicious.

Waterfall · Post by **Waterfall** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:33 pm

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #24]

Namaskaram TRANSPONDER

I really like our conversation

Maybe I will return later or tomorrow...

Your friend forever

Waterfall

Waterfall · Post by **Waterfall** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 6:49 am

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #24]

Namaskaram TRANSPONDER

I can live with anything that happens to my child because there is life after death and reincarnation. How do atheists think? We can live with anything that happens to our children because life is not fair? It is just bad luck for those of our children who end up in wars and get tortured to death? We are strong? Like the theists? Really? How to test that...

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/ ... er-of-lyon

One thing is you being tortured to death but what about your child? Life is always now? Now you are being tortured? Now you cant escape? Now it is better not to have been born? Can you feel the pain and hear the screaming? Now you will think twice before putting children into this world? There are people who do not think like I do. But there is life after death and reincarnation for them too. How can we watch people being tortured to death and not blow the world apart? Because there is life after death and reincarnation? Because there is love, mercy and justice? Because there is a divine plan? Maybe there is life after death and reincarnation? Maybe we should not put children into this world? That is a weak position? Make up your mind? Say yes or no? And let us run with the ball? Life is great and God is the highest consciousness/intelligence

I like Matt Dillahunty and the atheist experience and have watch "many" of the episodes. Hope you like the wood

Now I will to talk with Wootah - he thinks I am a Hindu. For inspiration...

Your friend forever

Waterfall

TRANSPONDER · Post by **TRANSPONDER** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:16 am

Waterfall wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 6:49 am [Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #24]

Namaskaram TRANSPONDER

I can live with anything that happens to my child because there is life after death and reincarnation. How do atheists think? We can live with anything that happens to our children because life is not fair? It is just bad luck for those of our children who end up in wars and get tortured to death? We are strong? Like the theists? Really? How to test that...

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/ ... er-of-lyon

One thing is you being tortured to death but what about your child? Life is always now? Now you are being tortured? Now you cant escape? Now it is better not to have been born? Can you feel the pain and hear the screaming? Now you will think twice before putting children into this world? There are people who do not think like I do. But there is life after death and reincarnation for them too. How can we watch people being tortured to death and not blow the world apart? Because there is life after death and reincarnation? Because there is love, mercy and justice? Because there is a divine plan? Maybe there is life after death and reincarnation? Maybe we should not put children into this world? That is a weak position? Make up your mind? Say yes or no? And let us run with the ball? Life is great and God is the highest consciousness/intelligence I like Matt Dillahunty and the atheist experience and have watch "many" of the episodes. Hope you like the wood Now I will to talk with Wootah - he thinks I am a Hindu. For inspiration...

Your friend forever

Waterfall

Didn't we already do this? Of course, one ha the option to not have kids. That is a choice. One may also bet that the kids will have a life that is worthwhile, and will bet that nobody is going to torture them just as we bet this plane won't be the one that flies into a mountain. Like I say, if we didn't take the risks, nobody would dare step out of their hose.

And again I said that most people have kids without even thinking on these matters. Instinct drives them to breed. It may be a crummy system, but that's what you get with evolution - whoever said it was designed by an Intelligence? That being so 'do we leave them to their fate?' as Galadriel says. We have a job of making things as rewarding and worthwhile as we can for these kids.

Thus I see the 'vale of tears' apologetic (creating an illness to 'cure' with the afterlife nostrum) = not 'ale of tears as I misspelled it (the only ale of tears was
Watney's Red Barrel) as futile and sad and a criminal waste of the lottery win of being alive in one of the better places and times in human history.

Waterfall · Post by **Waterfall** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 11:39 am

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #27]

Namaskaram TRANSPONDER

You do not make it easy

When you become everybody, then you will see the light

I do not bet with your life

Do we live in the most interesting and peacefull times ever...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attila

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong

https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_B._Johnson

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashar_al-Assad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong_Un

The black list is long. Where are all the good leaders...

Your friend forever

Waterfall

TRANSPONDER · Post by **TRANSPONDER** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 3:52 pm

I do not make it easy to get away with glib and shortsighted pronouncement designed to make us regard this life with horror. I have said this to the religious before - this life is paradise compared to just 200 years ago. I mentioned (may have posted) a vid I watched about life in India (coincidentally) 90 years ago. It was shocking by today's standards. Wars aside there is nothing like to continual wars going on everywhere back in the day. Holy wars as often as not. And don't get me started on comparative dentistry. Heath, longevity, nutrition, lifestyle, education, we live in a paradise today and I regard those who deprecate it as misguided at best and undeserving of all that humanity has done for them.

It isn't perfect, not by a long way. But so much has been done, and we can see the way ahead. If only we could replace superstition with critical thinking, I think we could take the next step.