Size of a Religion - or Cult

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boatsnguitars
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Size of a Religion - or Cult

Post #1

Post by boatsnguitars »

I have to say, this was the most remarkable, and unintentionally hillarious posts I have read in a long time.
anon2 wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 7:54 am
anon1 wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:11 pm Many religions and denominations take pride, even boast of how large their followers are in numbers and the rate at which they are growing. But the thread of truth that runs throughout the whole of the scriptures is that God has always worked through the minority and never through the majority. This teaches us that when people look at their large numbers and equate that with their reasoning of God working through them, well the Bible teaches quite the opposite.

There are numerous accounts in the Bible which teach this truth, but my favorite is regarding the 400 prophets of Israel who were called to inquire of God whether king Ahab should go into battle and obtain victory or not. And since these 400 prophets were prophets of Israel, and Israel was recognized as the people of God, then surely these 400 prophets were true prophets of God, right? Especially since they all came to the same conclusion and spoke with one voice unto the king saying that God would surely give this king victory. Yet one one man is called to see what God had to say and he told the king that the king would die in battle and that these 400 prophets were false prophets.

But what's more, is that these 400 prophets truly believed that they were true children of God and that the one lone prophet wasn't. This is a tremendous warning to those who find comfort and assurance in the size of their religious group who claim the name of God. Anyone can read this account in 1 Kings 22.

What do you think about God always working through the minority? What do you think about those groups who firmly believe they are the people of God but are in fact not?
I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I actually agree with what you’ve written. 😁

Imho, many denominations are in for a rude awakening.
Obviously, this is what you'd say if you believe in a small sect or cult! What a way to justify your belief - that only rare beliefs are true! It's downright, abjectly hillarious! This is "Motivated reasoning" at it's finest.

It's why I think religion damages the brain. Some people actually think this is a justification of why their beliefs may be true! It's patently absurd!

These people vote, possibly raise and teach our children, etc.

No doubt this was preceded by someone from a mega church, or the RCC saying that their sect was more popular - so, instead of simply agreeing, they've decided to use it as an Apologetic.

Isn't this a perfect example of Apologetics? The motivation, the bad logic, etc? To me it is.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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Re: Size of a Religion - or Cult

Post #21

Post by 1213 »

Clownboat wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:29 pm
1213 wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:46 am What is atheist afterlife? :D
Remember what it was like before you were born? I'm going to guess that the atheistic afterlife is much like that, it just applies to after you have died. Same experience though. Sadly, it doesn't leave room for seeing your loved ones when you die or living forever, so I get why placing faith in a religion is preferred by those that are religiously inclined.
I think it is false marketing, if Christians say it is about choosing right religion to get afterlife, because Bible tells:

Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said to Him, How is a man able to be born, being old? He is not able to enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born? Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth out of water and Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God. That receiving birth from the flesh is flesh, and that receiving birth from the Spirit is spirit. Do not wonder because I told you, You must receive birth from above.
John 3:3-7
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Re: Size of a Religion - or Cult

Post #22

Post by Clownboat »

1213 wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 5:01 am I think it is false marketing, if Christians say it is about choosing right religion to get afterlife, because Bible tells:

Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said to Him, How is a man able to be born, being old? He is not able to enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born? Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth out of water and Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God. That receiving birth from the flesh is flesh, and that receiving birth from the Spirit is spirit. Do not wonder because I told you, You must receive birth from above.
John 3:3-7
Please realize that I do not worship the Bible like you do. Your level of worship towards this book is meaningless to me personally. The Bible is no longer my idol and I am no longer saddled with beliefs in talking animals, living in the belly of a fish or that dead bodies got out of their graves and walked the streets of Jerusalem just because it is claimed in a religious holy book. It's no different then worshiping the Qu'ran and believing the Muhammed flew on a winged horse.

How I'm using it:
wor·ship
/ˈwərSHəp/
noun
the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration

Exodus 20:3-5
King James Version
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Careful not to make a god out of the Bible. Just kidding, you'll be fine. 8-)
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

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It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Size of a Religion - or Cult

Post #23

Post by TRANSPONDER »

1213 wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 5:01 am
Clownboat wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:29 pm
1213 wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:46 am What is atheist afterlife? :D
Remember what it was like before you were born? I'm going to guess that the atheistic afterlife is much like that, it just applies to after you have died. Same experience though. Sadly, it doesn't leave room for seeing your loved ones when you die or living forever, so I get why placing faith in a religion is preferred by those that are religiously inclined.
I think it is false marketing, if Christians say it is about choosing right religion to get afterlife, because Bible tells:

Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said to Him, How is a man able to be born, being old? He is not able to enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born? Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth out of water and Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God. That receiving birth from the flesh is flesh, and that receiving birth from the Spirit is spirit. Do not wonder because I told you, You must receive birth from above.
John 3:3-7
How does that make the heaven of mainstream Christianity false marketing?

John 14 1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

This clearly talks of a desirable place, Heaven, Paradise, which Luke speaks of and even Paul. This is Bible teaching, not false marketing or the Bible at least.

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Re: Size of a Religion - or Cult

Post #24

Post by 1213 »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 4:40 pm
1213 wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 5:01 am
Clownboat wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:29 pm
1213 wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:46 am What is atheist afterlife? :D
Remember what it was like before you were born? I'm going to guess that the atheistic afterlife is much like that, it just applies to after you have died. Same experience though. Sadly, it doesn't leave room for seeing your loved ones when you die or living forever, so I get why placing faith in a religion is preferred by those that are religiously inclined.
I think it is false marketing, if Christians say it is about choosing right religion to get afterlife, because Bible tells:

Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said to Him, How is a man able to be born, being old? He is not able to enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born? Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth out of water and Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God. That receiving birth from the flesh is flesh, and that receiving birth from the Spirit is spirit. Do not wonder because I told you, You must receive birth from above.
John 3:3-7
How does that make the heaven of mainstream Christianity false marketing?
...
The idea that it is only about picking right religion is not from the Bible.
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Re: Size of a Religion - or Cult

Post #25

Post by TRANSPONDER »

1213 wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2023 6:30 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 4:40 pm
1213 wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 5:01 am
Clownboat wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:29 pm
1213 wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:46 am What is atheist afterlife? :D
Remember what it was like before you were born? I'm going to guess that the atheistic afterlife is much like that, it just applies to after you have died. Same experience though. Sadly, it doesn't leave room for seeing your loved ones when you die or living forever, so I get why placing faith in a religion is preferred by those that are religiously inclined.
I think it is false marketing, if Christians say it is about choosing right religion to get afterlife, because Bible tells:

Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said to Him, How is a man able to be born, being old? He is not able to enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born? Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth out of water and Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God. That receiving birth from the flesh is flesh, and that receiving birth from the Spirit is spirit. Do not wonder because I told you, You must receive birth from above.
John 3:3-7
How does that make the heaven of mainstream Christianity false marketing?
...
The idea that it is only about picking right religion is not from the Bible.
It most certainly is, and I believe you posted a shedload of Biblequotes to prove it. Through Jesus, and through nothing else. Thus Only Christianity saves, nothing else.

Please explain why you seem to be contradicting your own arguments.

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Re: Size of a Religion - or Cult

Post #26

Post by 1213 »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:33 am ...
It most certainly is, and I believe you posted a shedload of Biblequotes to prove it. Through Jesus, and through nothing else. Thus Only Christianity saves, nothing else.
...
I think it is only God who saves.
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Re: Size of a Religion - or Cult

Post #27

Post by Clownboat »

1213 wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:05 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:33 am ...
It most certainly is, and I believe you posted a shedload of Biblequotes to prove it. Through Jesus, and through nothing else. Thus Only Christianity saves, nothing else.
...
I think it is only God who saves.
To put things in perspective as I see this as extremely relevant to your statement above...

Do you think that donkeys and snakes talked?
Do you think that a man lived in the belly of a fish for days?
Do you think that the bodies of dead saints got out of their graves and walked the streets of Jerusalem?
Do you think the sun can appear to stand still (earth stopped rotating) for an entire day?

I could tell you what I think about your reply, but just informing you of my thoughts would not be debate. Reasoning should be supplied. For example, reasons to be suspicious about things you think can happen, because you think they can happen while no reasoning is supplied to think said things can actually happen is a reason to remain suspicious about what you 'think'.

Your reasoning is exactly the same as someone that thinks there are numerous gods that can save. They are not justified just for thinking it.
Think on that. 8-)
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Size of a Religion - or Cult

Post #28

Post by TRANSPONDER »

1213 wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:05 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:33 am ...
It most certainly is, and I believe you posted a shedload of Biblequotes to prove it. Through Jesus, and through nothing else. Thus Only Christianity saves, nothing else.
...
I think it is only God who saves.
Of course, but only if one believes in Jesus - and correctly, too. Do you suppose God is going to save Muslims? They believe in Jesus, but not as what the Christian religion teaches about him.

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Re: Size of a Religion - or Cult

Post #29

Post by 1213 »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:13 pm
1213 wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:05 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:33 am ...
It most certainly is, and I believe you posted a shedload of Biblequotes to prove it. Through Jesus, and through nothing else. Thus Only Christianity saves, nothing else.
...
I think it is only God who saves.
Of course, but only if one believes in Jesus - and correctly, too. Do you suppose God is going to save Muslims? They believe in Jesus, but not as what the Christian religion teaches about him.
Again this this depends on what saved means. I think it means sins are forgiven. And I think that is also for Muslims. However, forgiveness is not useful, if one continues in sin. This is why it is not useful to declare forgiveness, if one doesn't change his path from wrong to right. This doesn't mean that I think no Muslim can't be righteous. This means, if some Muslim is sinful, it can be forgiven. And when the sin is forgiven, he should reject it and not continue in sin, because forgiveness is not useful, if person continues in sin.
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Re: Size of a Religion - or Cult

Post #30

Post by 1213 »

Clownboat wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:59 am Do you think that donkeys and snakes talked?
Do you think that a man lived in the belly of a fish for days?
Do you think that the bodies of dead saints got out of their graves and walked the streets of Jerusalem?
Do you think the sun can appear to stand still (earth stopped rotating) for an entire day?

I could tell you what I think about your reply, but just informing you of my thoughts would not be debate. Reasoning should be supplied. For example, reasons to be suspicious about things you think can happen, because you think they can happen while no reasoning is supplied to think said things can actually happen is a reason to remain suspicious about what you 'think'.
I believe things went as told in the Bible. The reason why I believe so is that I trust Bible. And I trust Bible because I see it to be correct in many things and also because I don't think we would have the story, if it didn't really happen.
Clownboat wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:59 amYour reasoning is exactly the same as someone that thinks there are numerous gods that can save. They are not justified just for thinking it.
Why they are not justified to think so?
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