How do we know Genesis was intended to be a metaphor?

[Justin108]

Other than our current understanding of science clearly contradicting Genesis, what reason is there to believe Genesis was written as a metaphorical account of creation?

[TheBeardedDude]

Except when it doesn't (as in the star example)

No, the discussion on the meaning of "made" has simply been centered on reasoning on dictionary definitions. I did referece the Hebrew, simply because the bible was not written in English and original language can help us to know which English meaning (definition) is closest to the author's intention when there are several options.

JW

So, like I said, it means what it means when it fits your preconceived beliefs but it means something else when it doesn't? It also means what it doesn't say when it doesn't say something important?

[Zzyzx]

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Except when it doesn't (as in the star example)

No, the discussion on the meaning of "made" has simply been centered on reasoning on dictionary definitions. I did referece the Hebrew, simply because the bible was not written in English and original language can help us to know which English meaning (definition) is closest to the author's intention when there are several options.

Is this to say that English language Bibles cannot be trusted to convey correct meaning?

Are anonymous Internet personas (perhaps using on-line translator sites) more reliable and more accurate than professional Bible translators and editors?

[JehovahsWitness]

Your correct wording doesn't fly with science either. From the outside lookin in it looks like you want to argue the stars were made before day 4 but were simultaneously not shining on the earth prior to day 4.

No I don't want to argue any of that (apart from the part about the stars having been made prior to day four).

Then on day 4 God brings them about into the firmament.

I didn't say this, what do you mean by "God brings them about into the firmament"? I'm pretty sure I haven't mentioned "the firmament" at all...

It still doesn't change the fact that there were no star photons hitting the planet for the plants. Never mind the fact that there are star billions of light years away and that somehow these photons instantly traveled across the universe simultaneously

Sorry I don't understand this statement so I cannot address it. What I can do however, is, if you feel inclined, read what you believe did happen (ie what science presently proposes - notably in terms of time order) I can attempt to respond with what I know about scripture.

In any case as it stands, I cannot respond as I am confused as to this idea of photons (light?) "instantly traveled across the universe simultaneously"

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

.

Except when it doesn't (as in the star example)

No, the discussion on the meaning of "made" has simply been centered on reasoning on dictionary definitions. I did referece the Hebrew, simply because the bible was not written in English and original language can help us to know which English meaning (definition) is closest to the author's intention when there are several options.

Is this to say that English language Bibles cannot be trusted to convey correct meaning?

Are anonymous Internet personas (perhaps using on-line translator sites) more reliable and more accurate than professional Bible translators and editors?

Is there anything that I have said suggesting any such thing? If so what (feel free to direct me to the post or quote what I said)? If not, why are you addressing this comment to me?


You might find #182 (see above) enlightening in this regard.

[TheBeardedDude]

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Except when it doesn't (as in the star example)

No, the discussion on the meaning of "made" has simply been centered on reasoning on dictionary definitions. I did referece the Hebrew, simply because the bible was not written in English and original language can help us to know which English meaning (definition) is closest to the author's intention when there are several options.

Is this to say that English language Bibles cannot be trusted to convey correct meaning?

Are anonymous Internet personas (perhaps using on-line translator sites) more reliable and more accurate than professional Bible translators and editors?

Is there anything that I have said suggesting any such thing? If so what (feel free to direct me to the post or quote what I said)? If not, why are you addressing this comment to me?


You might find #182 (see above) enlightening in this regard.

He addressed it to you because you are debating translation of specific words as a justification for your interpretation of the bible's verses that are (as translated) incongruent with science.

[JehovahsWitness]

He addressed it to you because you are debating translation of specific words as a justification for your interpretation of the bible's verses that are (as translated) incongruent with science.

I'm sure Zed is more than capable of speaking for himself but if that were his point he would be in error since I have at no time called into question the reliability or choices of ANY bible translator. Indeed I am not debating translation at all, I am debating if anything, readers extremely narrow application of the English words they read in those translations and seeming reluctance to recognize the legitimate definitions of the words in the translations we have at our disposal.

In short, I am reasoning on the scope and range of the dictionary bound definitions of words that seem to have gone unnoticed and applying that to the definitions bible scholars and language experts have presented both in English and in Hebrew.

There may well be bible verses that as translated at least seem incongruent with science but Genesis 1:16 and its related passages is not one of them. Not for anybody with a good dictionary and the will to use it.

[TheBeardedDude]

He addressed it to you because you are debating translation of specific words as a justification for your interpretation of the bible's verses that are (as translated) incongruent with science.

I'm sure Zed is more than capable of speaking for himself but if that were his point he would be in error since I have at no time called into question the reliability or choices of ANY bible translator. Indeed I am not debating translation at all, I am debating if anything, readers extremely narrow application of the English words they read in those translations and seeming reluctance to recognize the legitimate definitions of the words in the translations we have at our disposal.

In short, I am reasoning on the scope and range of the dictionary bound definitions of words that seem to have gone unnoticed and applying that to the definitions bible scholars and language experts have presented both in English and in Hebrew.

There may well be bible verses that as translated at least seem incongruent with science but Genesis 1:16 and its related passages is not one of them. Not for anybody with a good dictionary.

"Indeed I am not debating translation at all, I am debating if anything, readers extremely narrow application of the English words they read in those translations and seeming reluctance to recognize the legitimate definitions of the words in the translations we have at our disposal. "

I think it would be a good idea for you to reread what you write. The above says to me that "I am not calling translations into question, I am calling into question the definitions of words used in translations that change the translations into something I don't agree with."

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 203 by JehovahsWitness]

No I don't want to argue any of that (apart from the part about the stars having been made prior to day four).

So if the stars were made prior to day 4( I don't see the biblical evidence for that) why would you need to bring them about if they were already about(shining on the earth)?

The bible says that God made(brought about)the stars and put them in the firmament on day 4. Is there no firmament in your bible? Do you not believe in a firmament?

[JehovahsWitness]

The bible says that God made(brought about)the stars and put them in the firmament on day 4. Is there no firmament in your bible? Do you not believe in a firmament?

Depends, what do you think it means? What are you talking about "God put the stars in a firmament"? I can't read your mind, you seem to have some kind of interpretation going there but I can't imagine what it is without you explaining...

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

So if the stars were made prior to day 4( I don't see the biblical evidence for that) ...

There is plenty biblical evidence for that, most of which has been examined in the course of this thread.

JW