Christianity's Biggest Problem Yet?

[POI]

Below is a 20 minute video. For the ones who opt not to watch, I'll start with the following question? (Which may then lead to many others, as this is a fairly new concept of thought for me)....

Why does YHWH allow for so much animal suffering? Before you Christians answer, I trust you are already aware of this guy's counter points?

[theophile]

And to dig into your assertion...

Why can't God do anything about it?

God can't do anything about it because God doesn't have the power. That's been my point all along

Yea, this is why I originally opted not to engage your response(s)... But I digress....

Did God have the power to create the scenario He created, or did someone else create the scenario which exists?

No, or I don't know to either option. Per other threads, at the beginning with God there is also the deep. In Gen 1:2, the powerless (wispy spirit) God is hovering over the deep, which is never created by God in the bible. Which pre-exists with God.

I would suggest that 'the deep' represents the specific 'scenario' that you're asking bout here. The abyss / cosmic ocean that we all find ourselves in, including God at the beginning...

The bible makes no mention of the origins of either God or the deep, or anything about their creation (Genesis starts with the letter 'b', implying an 'a' book that goes unwritten and that we can't speak to. A story and context that precedes Genesis...)

But it's a lovely question.

[POI]

And to dig into your assertion...

Why can't God do anything about it?

God can't do anything about it because God doesn't have the power. That's been my point all along

Yea, this is why I originally opted not to engage your response(s)... But I digress....

Did God have the power to create the scenario He created, or did someone else create the scenario which exists?

No, or I don't know to either option. Per other threads, at the beginning with God there is also the deep. In Gen 1:2, the powerless (wispy spirit) God is hovering over the deep, which is never created by God in the bible. Which pre-exists with God.

I would suggest that 'the deep' represents the specific 'scenario' that you're asking bout here. The abyss / cosmic ocean that we all find ourselves in, including God at the beginning...

The bible makes no mention of the origins of either God or the deep, or anything about their creation (Genesis starts with the letter 'b', implying an 'a' book that goes unwritten and that we can't speak to. A story and context that precedes Genesis...)

But it's a lovely question.

I rest my case.

[theophile]

I rest my case.

Huh? What case? I don't even know what you're arguing! All you've done is ask a series of questions. But okay. Good job.

[POI]

I rest my case.

Huh? What case? I don't even know what you're arguing! All you've done is ask a series of questions. But okay. Good job.

I feel this is a worthy topic of discussion. Thus far, four theists have professed their positions; which now demonstrate problem(s). Hence, they must either:

A) resolve their respective problem(s)
B) reconcile the problem(s) and then relegate the Bible
C) reconcile the presented problem(s) and then adopt a differing view for YWHW, to remain Christian
D) ignore

Thus far, as of post #160, they have basically chosen D) - ignore. I appreciate your willingness to engage. However, I told you, from the jump, that I doubt our exchange would be very productive.

Regardless of (your) view, it still suggests problem(s). I will lay out a series of some answered questions, some unanswered questions, along with logical observations. Please redirect me, where applicable, or reconcile the presented 'head-scratcher' at the bottom:

1. You assert one of the roles of humans is to be caretakers for the animals. Who assigned this role exactly? I'll answer for you, YHWH.

2. Do you acknowledge animals existed millions of years before humans? I'll answer for you, yes.

3. Who created humans? YHWH or other? Assuming YHWH, let's proceed. If 'other', then does god have a God? Or are you trying to escape the 'problem', due to a 'technicality'? (please answer here).

4. But still, if your assertion is that YHWH deems humans to be animal caretakers, then this must mean god cares about animals. Even if "He can't do anything about it". Which is an odd thing to state; being that He did "do something about it," He assigned humans to accept the task much later.

5. If animals are worthy of being taken care of, then it seems quite vexing you assert that (the creator of humans) allowed animal 'suffering', for millions of years, prior to them being taken care of...

6. You assert that God saw that it was good. If many/most animals are immediately subject to perpetual terror, disease, starvation, predation, handicaps, floods, etc., without any caretaker(s) to intervene, how exactly is this deemed 'good'? Before you answer, please remember, YHWH MUCH later assigns the caretaker responsibility to humans. Hence, it would seem it's 'good' to take care of animals. Thus, if it's 'good' to take care of the animal population, then neglecting to do so would be "bad"? If neglecting to do so is 'bad', then (the creator) neglected to do so for millions of years, while calling it 'good'?

[William]

[Replying to POI in post #204]

6. You assert that God saw that it was good. If many/most animals are immediately subject to perpetual terror, disease, starvation, predation, handicaps, floods, etc., without any caretaker(s) to intervene, how exactly is this deemed 'good'? Before you answer, please remember, YHWH MUCH later assigns the caretaker responsibility to humans. Hence, it would seem it's 'good' to take care of animals. Thus, if it's 'good' to take care of the animal population, then neglecting to do so would be "bad"? If neglecting to do so is 'bad', then (the creator) neglected to do so for millions of years, while calling it 'good'?

The way YHWH [יהוה] is presented, we in modern times could view the presentation as extraterrestrial intervention.

I think that the invention of the Prime Directive stems from this conscious realization the Sci-fi author [Gene Roddenberry] had regarding said biblical stories and equating cause and effect as known here on earth [history] that should it be the case that YHWH represents an advanced specie which interacted with ancient humans, then the problems which were caused by this, became the basis for one of the greatest laws to be enacted in order that this type of thing never happened through The Federation and Star-Fleet command - who are the portrayal of space-faring humans of the future, making sure they do not repeat YWHWs mistake.

[POI]

[Replying to POI in post #204]

6. You assert that God saw that it was good. If many/most animals are immediately subject to perpetual terror, disease, starvation, predation, handicaps, floods, etc., without any caretaker(s) to intervene, how exactly is this deemed 'good'? Before you answer, please remember, YHWH MUCH later assigns the caretaker responsibility to humans. Hence, it would seem it's 'good' to take care of animals. Thus, if it's 'good' to take care of the animal population, then neglecting to do so would be "bad"? If neglecting to do so is 'bad', then (the creator) neglected to do so for millions of years, while calling it 'good'?

The way YHWH [יהוה] is presented, we in modern times could view the presentation as extraterrestrial intervention.

I think that the invention of the Prime Directive stems from this conscious realization the Sci-fi author [Gene Roddenberry] had regarding said biblical stories and equating cause and effect as known here on earth [history] that should it be the case that YHWH represents an advanced specie which interacted with ancient humans, then the problems which were caused by this, became the basis for one of the greatest laws to be enacted in order that this type of thing never happened through The Federation and Star-Fleet command - who are the portrayal of space-faring humans of the future, making sure they do not repeat YWHWs mistake.

[William]

[Replying to POI in post #204]

3. Who created humans? YHWH or other? Assuming YHWH, let's proceed. If 'other', then does god have a God?

Does YHWH have a Creator?

The way I think about extraterrestrials is that they are likelier not to be biological but Synthetic and were created by biological critters [which were created by the processes of the universe] and sent out into the cosmic environment in order to seed [terraforming] biological prodigy on planets capable of assisting this biological process.

In that sense, YHWH would be the synthetic sowing the seed on said planets.

[POI]

[Replying to POI in post #204]

3. Who created humans? YHWH or other? Assuming YHWH, let's proceed. If 'other', then does god have a God?

Does YHWH have a Creator?

The way I think about extraterrestrials is that they are likelier not to be biological but Synthetic and were created by biological critters [which were created by the processes of the universe] and sent out into the cosmic environment in order to seed [terraforming] biological prodigy on planets capable of assisting this biological process.

In that sense, YHWH would be the synthetic sowing the seed on said planets.

Do you consider yourself a Christian?

[William]

[Replying to POI in post #206]

I have wondered in the past as to why materialists are afraid of this thing they refer to as "fruit-salad" - the answer is most likely because the firing neurons which occur through said subject matter threatens their assumed dominance [re planetary affairs] and such threats are a call to defensive arms as "Get behind the Fruit Salad Blockades"...here comes another!

It is similar to the "Woo-Woo" defense mechanism, and just as useless as each other re defense.

The fight from our thoughts continues.

[William]

[Replying to POI in post #204]

3. Who created humans? YHWH or other? Assuming YHWH, let's proceed. If 'other', then does god have a God?

Does YHWH have a Creator?

The way I think about extraterrestrials is that they are likelier not to be biological but Synthetic and were created by biological critters [which were created by the processes of the universe] and sent out into the cosmic environment in order to seed [terraforming] biological prodigy on planets capable of assisting this biological process.

In that sense, YHWH would be the synthetic sowing the seed on said planets.

Do you consider yourself a Christian?

I am with Dr. Sheldrake regarding that.

He regards himself as a Christian in the sense that he acknowledges the culture he grew up in.

He sees similar connections re Christian Mythology with other cultures Mythologies.

In that, yes - I consider myself a Christian, but as we know - calling oneself one is debatable re all the others, and that kind of dynamic is not something I think useful enough to get distracted about.