We have countless claims, from Christians, to God/Jesus answering prayers for healing to human affliction(s). And by 'answered' prayer, I mean God/Jesus states -- (yes, I will grant you this prayer request to remove the human affliction).
For Debate:
1. Does God "answer" any of these prayer requests? If not, why?
2. If so, why does God/Jesus perpetually skip the following afflictions (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, cerebral palsy, dementia, diabetes mellites 1, amputation, muscular dystrophy, hunington's disease, epilepsy, parkinson's disease, paget's disease, motor neuron disease, and so on)?
Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)
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Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)
Post #1In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)
Post #211That is possible. For me Bible is enough document for such miracles.POI wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:50 amI listed many conditions, and none of them have simply been formally documented, even though it happens?1213 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:50 am No, I tried to say, if those happened, it is possible that there was no one to document them in a way that you would accept as valid documents. Many things happen in this world that are not documented. Missing a document doesn't necessary mean that nothing has happened.
My new book can be read freely from here:
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Old version can be read from here:
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIkqxC ... xtqFY/view
Old version can be read from here:
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Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)
Post #212But it isn't about You. What is enough for you (denial of science, logic and what's in the Bible unless Interpreted by you) isn't the point, it is science, logic and what's in the Bible and whether you can justify your interpretation. It's the validity of the case, not how much you can deny everything.1213 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:30 amThat is possible. For me Bible is enough document for such miracles.POI wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:50 amI listed many conditions, and none of them have simply been formally documented, even though it happens?1213 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:50 am No, I tried to say, if those happened, it is possible that there was no one to document them in a way that you would accept as valid documents. Many things happen in this world that are not documented. Missing a document doesn't necessary mean that nothing has happened.
You may not case. You may think you win by denial; and if that ticks off the atheists, then jolly good. But you don't win, because you are providing a good example of what's wrong with theistic thinking and apologetics.
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Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)
Post #213You do not find it odd that the reported prayer miracles only perpetually skip the incurable medical conditions, in which I listed? Seems we have countless reports of answered prayers for curable conditions.1213 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:30 amThat is possible. For me Bible is enough document for such miracles.POI wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:50 amI listed many conditions, and none of them have simply been formally documented, even though it happens?1213 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:50 am No, I tried to say, if those happened, it is possible that there was no one to document them in a way that you would accept as valid documents. Many things happen in this world that are not documented. Missing a document doesn't necessary mean that nothing has happened.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)
Post #214We already know that Christian apologetics knows that prayer isn't always answered because they have a meme of : "Yes, no, and later", and more recent of excuses like 'maybe God thinks you shouldn't have it'.
I watched (for fun - mine, nit his) Noel Phillips doing a Greyhound bus trip across America. They got dumped in a station in the midwest or Kansas because there was no replacement driver. The passengers were completely at a loss and stuck but after 40 minutes, a driver turned up "I knew Jesus would find a way" one passenger said or something along those lines. I'm not about to let Jesus get the credit for a transport organisation's work. I see this as the delusionary crediting what people to to God - if it's good, and blaming man for anything bad.
I watched (for fun - mine, nit his) Noel Phillips doing a Greyhound bus trip across America. They got dumped in a station in the midwest or Kansas because there was no replacement driver. The passengers were completely at a loss and stuck but after 40 minutes, a driver turned up "I knew Jesus would find a way" one passenger said or something along those lines. I'm not about to let Jesus get the credit for a transport organisation's work. I see this as the delusionary crediting what people to to God - if it's good, and blaming man for anything bad.
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Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)
Post #215Again, this is starting to feel like the groundhog day. I have already said, I don't have any reason to believe God skips perpetually something.
My new book can be read freely from here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIkqxC ... xtqFY/view
Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIkqxC ... xtqFY/view
Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html
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Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)
Post #216Do you understand that it could be as well said that you are in denial?TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:56 am But it isn't about You. What is enough for you (denial of science, logic and what's in the Bible unless Interpreted by you) isn't the point, it is science, logic and what's in the Bible and whether you can justify your interpretation. It's the validity of the case, not how much you can deny everything.
You may not case. You may think you win by denial; and if that ticks off the atheists, then jolly good. But you don't win, because you are providing a good example of what's wrong with theistic thinking and apologetics.
You are basically arguing that your opinion is the correct and others are wrong, without anything good to support it. It really gives nothing substantial.
My new book can be read freely from here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIkqxC ... xtqFY/view
Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIkqxC ... xtqFY/view
Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html
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Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)
Post #217You can say whatever you like. Your opinion doesn't matter, nor mine. What matters is the case that can be made. Whatever was being discussed - order of creation in Genesis or whether prayers are answered, you have given yourself away by making up unsupported claims about what made daylight and alternatively apparently denying what is demonstrable - that some prayers are not answered.1213 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:02 amDo you understand that it could be as well said that you are in denial?TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:56 am But it isn't about You. What is enough for you (denial of science, logic and what's in the Bible unless Interpreted by you) isn't the point, it is science, logic and what's in the Bible and whether you can justify your interpretation. It's the validity of the case, not how much you can deny everything.
You may not case. You may think you win by denial; and if that ticks off the atheists, then jolly good. But you don't win, because you are providing a good example of what's wrong with theistic thinking and apologetics.
You are basically arguing that your opinion is the correct and others are wrong, without anything good to support it. It really gives nothing substantial.
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Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)
Post #218Of course you have reason for doubt. You will not find any documented credible accounts of the above listed incurable conditions being cured after prayer.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)
Post #219It is Bindfaith -denialist - belief in ones' own beliefs to say otherwise. From the belief that faith in Jesus and him saying the Word (presumably spitting on someone's face was just for show) was enough for anyone who had the Faith to cure anyone as promised in the gospels to those shysters who faithheal on stage before passing the collection tin round - it is supposed to work, and we are inundated with claims of miracle -healings. But it should work every time, for pretty much anything within reason and ethics. Plainly it doesn't, and to claim 'prayer works' is demonstrably false, denialist and does the claimants no favors with anyone who is not already indoctrinated.
That's the key and mechanism - the Greed.... sorry, I mean the Creed relieson clout, demographic domination and authoritative control to keep people in the Faith. If people are still open to doubt and question, the evagelical propagandists must lose, as I have Faith that people want to believe their beliefs are based on sound reason and evidence, and they don't like people who try to baboozle them.
It's down to votes in the end, even more than what's true, on evidence. They know it and know they have to win the propaganda battle or they are finished.
That's the key and mechanism - the Greed.... sorry, I mean the Creed relieson clout, demographic domination and authoritative control to keep people in the Faith. If people are still open to doubt and question, the evagelical propagandists must lose, as I have Faith that people want to believe their beliefs are based on sound reason and evidence, and they don't like people who try to baboozle them.
It's down to votes in the end, even more than what's true, on evidence. They know it and know they have to win the propaganda battle or they are finished.