The problem of evil

[William]

Q: Is the statement "Then there is "The problem of evil"" one of fact or conjecture? [science or opinion] In realty, does such a problem actually exist?

The problem of evil refers to the challenge of reconciling belief in an omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and omniscient God, with the existence of evil and suffering in the world. eta:{SOURCE}

[William]

If God intervenes, it is because God has intervened from one eternal act. I use tensed words because it is easier, but know that God is not tensed.

That reads like some kind of belief in predestination.
The trouble is this...... if a simple child cannot understand the message, then it is false.
Since a huge % of humanity has an IQ measurement under 100, any God certainly would want to make communication easier.

As the story goes;
YVHV grows human personalities for the purpose of having the potential for those personalities to consciously connect and commune with YVHV.
Communication is developed through that connect, and the individual personality has their part to play in developing ways in which to accomplish 'easier communication'. Standing by and demanding YVHV does all the work, will get the personality nowhere near that outcome.

[TRANSPONDER]

If God intervenes, it is because God has intervened from one eternal act. I use tensed words because it is easier, but know that God is not tensed.

That reads like some kind of belief in predestination.
The trouble is this...... if a simple child cannot understand the message, then it is false.
Since a huge % of humanity has an IQ measurement under 100, any God certainly would want to make communication easier.

YVHV grows human personalities for the purpose of having the potential for those personalities to consciously connect and commune with YVHV.
Communication is developed through that connect, and the individual personality has their part to play in developing ways in which to accomplish 'easier communication'. Standing by and demanding YVHV does all the work, will get the personality nowhere near that outcome.

Where (unlike relativity, easy or difficult to understand) is the evidence for any of that, which seems to be a Religion -based faithclaim? And how does it relate to the topic?

[oldbadger]

As the story goes;
YVHV grows human personalities for the purpose of having the potential for those personalities to consciously connect and commune with YVHV.

Is that a kind of 'to heaven by ability' system?

Communication is developed through that connect, and the individual personality has their part to play in developing ways in which to accomplish 'easier communication'. Standing by and demanding YVHV does all the work, will get the personality nowhere near that outcome.

Does this mean that people with inability to communicate can't get in to heaven?

[TRANSPONDER]

As the story goes;
YVHV grows human personalities for the purpose of having the potential for those personalities to consciously connect and commune with YVHV.

Is that a kind of 'to heaven by ability' system?

Communication is developed through that connect, and the individual personality has their part to play in developing ways in which to accomplish 'easier communication'. Standing by and demanding YVHV does all the work, will get the personality nowhere near that outcome.

Does this mean that people with inability to communicate can't get in to heaven?

I can see what he is getting at. It's convoluted, tricky and faithbased, but intended to show that all the human communications, efforts, aspirations and doings are all down to God (name your own) (1) which is simply a faithclaim and one rendered unneeded by adequate natural explanations (the few unanswered not making any real difference to that). So far, so bad, but our pal burrows deeper into the Orc-ooze... He accuses atheists of "Standing by and demanding YVHV does all the work". But isn't that what the theists call 'Letting Jesus take the wheel'? Isn't that this reliance on God and throwing your deadweight upon the Lord? Atheist humanism rather accepts that we are on our own and it's up to us, nobody else. So the accusation above was as Gimli says 'words (that) stand on their heads'.

Of course, we can see the wangle going on there. The whole 'why doesn't God intervene?' apologetic. What would we think of a political ruler who, when asked what he was going to do about hunger. poverty and disease, his representatives told us not to expect the Boss to do it all for them and turn to it themselves. Even worse, they are told that when they have been doing it themselves but could do with a little help. "Nope, do't sit idle and expect the boss to do it for you". The people would wonder whether the Boss was even there, what they were paying their taxes for and why they voted for him anyway. That is the problem of evil and why it makes people give up on the godclaim. And why clunky apologetics such as that above jut makes me more sure that was the right decision, if I ever had doubts.

(1) maybe like Islam atheism should have a god - suffix like 'God' (nmrywn)

[William]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #243]

The thread topic is not about heaven.

[oldbadger]

I do not think that follows. Special Relativity is not simple enough for a child to understand, yet it seems true.

Oh my.......!
To heaven with professors and intellectuals........ !

If heaven (and hell) did exist, hell might be a place where such as I would be surrounded by that lot, talking in riddles.... eternally.
Can't we just have the fire and devil with his trident?

[oldbadger]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #243]

The thread topic is not about heaven.

Sorry.........

[oldbadger]

God wants us to overcome evil by our own freewill. If we simply do good because God is in the sky and we see him, then we are not actively overcoming the evil. As the story goes, Satan was in the presence of God, yet he fell away. He had not been exposed to evils so they he could overcome them. So that we do not ever end up falling away, we must overcome evil, and this is only possible when not in the very presence of God. One because evil is the absence of God, and two because we need to turn the evil away without knowing for sure that God exist, again, otherwise not doing evil is not overcoming evil but we are not doing evil because we fear some consequence.

I highlighted your words ''Evil is the absence of God'.
A similar opinion might be 'evil is the absence of good' No? Yes?
Do you believe that?
And would you say that 'God is all?'

Imagine that you are beholding something that is good........ if you now take that away, what can you perceive...anything?
It seems that the absence of good is nothing, possibly?

Evil does not exist....... but of course wickedness does and so humans legislate to try and reduce and deter that.

[AquinasForGod]

I do not think that follows. Special Relativity is not simple enough for a child to understand, yet it seems true.

Oh my.......!
To heaven with professors and intellectuals........ !

If heaven (and hell) did exist, hell might be a place where such as I would be surrounded by that lot, talking in riddles.... eternally.
Can't we just have the fire and devil with his trident?

Luke 12:48 But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

You only have to understand to your capacity.

[TRANSPONDER]

I do not think that follows. Special Relativity is not simple enough for a child to understand, yet it seems true.

Oh my.......!
To heaven with professors and intellectuals........ !

If heaven (and hell) did exist, hell might be a place where such as I would be surrounded by that lot, talking in riddles.... eternally.
Can't we just have the fire and devil with his trident?

Luke 12:48 But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

You only have to understand to your capacity.

I reckon the old Badger understands very well; he sees those who practice what they call 'Philosophy to (As Aristophanes says in "Thebclouds" - 'To make he worst cause appear the better.', and is, I believe, called Sophistry, and he and I are familiar without exhausting our mental capacity with the fiddlement, evasion, misrepresentation and false reasoning employed by Bible (or god) -apologists to try to bamboozle people into giving Theist - claims at least the benefit of doubt.