WHOSE SIDE WAS GOD ON IN WW2?

[2Dbunk]

Gott mit uns (God is with us) was stamped on the German soldiers belt buckle in both WW1 and WW2. They lost both wars so their very Christian leaders evidently led their youth down the primrose path to destruction. At the same time here in America God has undoubtedly blessed us also (because we are a Christian country), and we were a significant party to winning both wars. I ask how can the same God be on both sides in such global conflicts? Was one (or both) of these nations dissembling in their gross presumption that God had anything to do with their participation in the two wars?

Seneca, a Roman philosopher, once said: Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful. That was about the time of Christ " the world hasnt learned much in all that time, has it? The common people continue to be led by the nose by rulers who know how to manipulate them.

So, whose side was God on in WW2?

Is this a valid question?

Was Seneca wrong in his pronouncement?

[William]

[Replying to post 30 by Tired of the Nonsense]

AS I conveyed in post #21 there are 3 options one can take position on re the biblical GOD, In relation to the OP question.

1: GOD is evil and supports all sides of human warfare.

2: GOD is evolving and supports sides which have the best chance of supporting GODs agenda.

3: GOD is good and supports no sides involved in warfare.

The data is there to examine and discern = there are options for my consideration.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 30 by Tired of the Nonsense]

AS I conveyed in post #21 there are 3 options one can take position on re the biblical GOD, In relation to the OP question.

1: GOD is evil and supports all sides of human warfare.

2: GOD is evolving and supports sides which have the best chance of supporting GODs agenda.

3: GOD is good and supports no sides involved in warfare.

The data is there to examine and discern = there are options for my consideration.

The fourth option, that God never existed to begin with, serves to make the entire question moot. Wouldn't you agree? A God who never existed in the first place supports NO side in a war. Which explain why the bad guys sometimes win.

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

Whose side was God on in WW2?

The Christians, Muslims, Jews, Protestants, Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and several others, which is why it took a whole lot longer'n any forty days and forty nights to get it over with.

When so many differing factions of the same group set to battle one another, Trump becomes president.

[Aetixintro]

"WHOSE SIDE WAS GOD ON IN WW2?"

The side that's least evil or the side that fights evil most effectively for that high level of evil, namely the Nazism and Lebensraum.

Under this, God supports, say some, the least evil people or the people who fight evil most effectively, person to person.

This leads to a given rationale of people to position themselves so to fight evil most effectively or remain most good!

By Christian Deist under the assumption of God of (Perfect) Goodness.

Good?

[Willum]

[Replying to Aetixintro]

Odd, if God had fought against Stalin, then 40 million people, 4 million Jews would still be alive. Against Mao (pro-Chiang Kai Shek), far more people would be alive.

If God had taken the side of the Germans during WWI, when they were the better of two sides, none of these would have occurred. (Something else may have...)

But what does that say?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 28 by William]




[center]
IF we make a claim , we better be prepared to defend it, or concede[/center]

Well this reasoning would have what to do with the OP? Are we arguing that Jesus never existed or that what is attributed to him having said is under question?

If we bring something up in a debate, then others are quite free to respond to it. We should be prepared to defend our statements in here.. or concede.

Many people can't seem to admit being wrong.
We get a lot of that in here.

You are free to think of GOD however you want to.

Is this a relevant point?
The OP is not about the freedom of thought.

Most of the debaters in here know full well that we are free to think whatever we want about anything we want. I really don't see the point of imagining we don't know that already.

I suggest that we try to stay on point.

And again, you apparently have a very special talent in being able to "discern" the actions of the true God from the false God. Because your view of reality is the real and true view of reality.

What does your personal opinion about me have to do with anything?

What do our personal OPINIONS about anything have to do with anything?
If someone portrays himself as someone who can tell the difference between the "true" and the "false" god, they should be prepared to face challenges.

Skeptics are unimpressed by grandiose claims.
We demand evidence and reasoning.

We aren't talking about you PERSONALLY, but only about the ideas that you present. In my opinion, your ideas are... what they are. You seem to be very convinced that your ideas are true.

Skeptics are not so sanguine about wild claims.

We get an awful lot of them in here... they come a dime a dozen. Get in line.. there are lots of people clamoring to tell us all about their ideas concerning the "One true God". Unfortunately, not all of the agree with one another. You are ALL very special people. We will get to you as soon as we possibly can. But be prepared next time when you show up, ok? Otherwise, you will lose your place.

One at a time, please ... No pushing or shoving.

NEXT !!!

Not sure why you gave these stats? Are you saying they point to GODs attributes being difficult for people to discern?

I can't imagine interpreting those stats any other way.
People don't all agree about what the Bible means.

IF everyone did agree on the nature of the "one true god", there would be only ONE denomination. In WW2, and in WW1, and in many other wars, Christians were fighting Christians for WHATEVER reasons. It doesn't matter why, they DISAGREED about something.

Theology is the study of these disagreements.
Everyone has different OPINIONS.

You have yours, I have mine and so on.
I think that many Christians in HERE might disagree with you on MANY MANY points.

One true god you say?
Preposterous.

Just about EVERY Christian thinks he know what that is.
I suggest they get in line.

There are MANY claimants.
All very very special claimants, of course.

One at a time.. we will get to you all as soon as we possibly can.

I see GOD in a more local sense that Christians do.

Could you explain what that means?
Local sense... Does the one true God live across the street from you?

[William]

[Replying to post 30 by Tired of the Nonsense]

AS I conveyed in post #21 there are 3 options one can take position on re the biblical GOD, In relation to the OP question.

1: GOD is evil and supports all sides of human warfare.

2: GOD is evolving and supports sides which have the best chance of supporting GODs agenda.

3: GOD is good and supports no sides involved in warfare.

The data is there to examine and discern = there are options for my consideration.

The fourth option, that God never existed to begin with, serves to make the entire question moot. Wouldn't you agree?

Sure. But are you arguing for that option or one of the other 3?

A God who never existed in the first place supports NO side in a war. Which explain why the bad guys sometimes win.

There are good guys and winners?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to William]

Sure. But are you arguing for that option or one of the other 3?

If there is no God, then no God supports no side in a war. Which is effectively no different from option three.

There are good guys and winners?

Good and bad are simply opinions. It depends on one's point of view. For example the great Muslim leader Saladin defeated the Crusaders at the Battle of Hattin in 1187, and as a result drove the crusaders out of Palestine and regained control of Jerusalem for Islam. It was widely considered that the bad guys has won by the Christians. The Muslims of course reached exactly the opposite conclusion.

So which side was God on during the crusades? Depends on one's point of view. If no God exists to begin with, it is a meaningless question.

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to post 38 by Tired of the Nonsense]

Then again, some may mix politics with religion and thus it's neither good nor bad.

But then, war may be just hell for every party including the women and children...

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 38 by Tired of the Nonsense]

Then again, some may mix politics with religion and thus it's neither good nor bad.

But then, war may be just hell for every party including the women and children...

Many people in the US currently ARE mixing religion with politics. These are people who at one time had no interest in politics, but are currently being told by their priests and pastors that God is a Republican, and God expect them to vote Republican. Then these same people wail and moan that they are being "persecuted" and that their beliefs are under attack. That Christians, who have been in such tight control over the course of western history for so many centuries, are being "persecuted" is truly a joke. Christians are currently faced with a rising tide of opposition however. Partly this is because Christians no longer have the legal authority to hang draw and quarter those who stand in contradiction to their claims. And partly this is because Christian claims are being forced to undergo actual open scrutiny. Something which was not possible in the drawing and quartering days.

But the counter religious belief movement which is currently gathering steam in the US, is very largely due to hardcore right wing Christians choosing to use their religious beliefs as the basis for their political views. Which makes their basic religious beliefs fair game. And this has directly lead to an unprecedented exposure of just how silly and unfounded many Christian claims actually are, and is one direct cause of the ongoing erosion of religion in modern American culture.

Polls have indicated that non belief in the USA has risen from around 5-7% at the end of the last century, to about 25% now. A rise of about 1% per year this century. At this rate non belief will be the majority opinion by the middle of the century.

What we are witnessing now are the furious but probably futile attempts of religious belief to maintain popular plurality. The trend towards non belief is already well underway in the modern developed countries, however.