Where in the Bible does Jesus tell people to be good?

[Wootah]

Where in the Bible does Jesus tell people to be good?

[1213]

The problem with building on some such statement is that it is not ALWAYS true; good trees do occasionally bear bad fruit and bad trees occasionally have the odd good fruit. It is the way of nature
.

But by Bible definition, tree that occasionally produces bad fruit, is not good tree. If you want to think that tree that occasionally produces bad fruit is really good tree, then that is just your opinion that I think is not true, because it can't be logically reasoned.

[marco]

The problem with building on some such statement is that it is not ALWAYS true; good trees do occasionally bear bad fruit and bad trees occasionally have the odd good fruit. It is the way of nature
.

But by Bible definition, tree that occasionally produces bad fruit, is not good tree. If you want to think that tree that occasionally produces bad fruit is really good tree, then that is just your opinion that I think is not true, because it can't be logically reasoned.

1213, I admire your defence of your beliefs. I would have thought that the statement: A good tree sometimes bears bad fruit is beyond logical reproach, it being a simple matter of fact. Even a spell of bad weather can affect the fruit crop. But there are numerous reasons why a perfectly good tree might occasionally underperform.


However, let's examine what you say. The "Bible definition" of a good tree (which I have never heard of) is one that resists climate and everything else and never produces bad fruit. That's a tough demand. HOWEVER, if we now say that a bad tree is one that just occasionally produces bad fruit then your refutation fails to redeem Christ, who says: "The bad tree never bears good fruit." You quoted this. Now, by the Bible definition, a tree that produces good fruit and occasionally bad fruit is a bad tree - producing good fruit. And so, my friend, Jesus is wrong in his generality.



I have no problem with Jesus making statements that are incorrect since I do not see him as omniscient. I understand why he said what he did, but as I have been pointing out, his words do not always hold, either literally or figuratively. And in case you still feel my logicality is flawed, consider this:


The apostolic group, chosen by Jesus, gave the world its martyred saints. But alas, this group produced at least one bad fruit in Judas. By your Bible definition, the apostolic group was bad. Sometimes we have to turn things upside down to support our own view of Scripture. Go well.

[Wootah]

When we take all of what Jesus is said to say, along with the rest of what the Biblical authors have to say, what he is saying is, "good isn't good enough, perfection is required, and you are not even good. Therefore, you should look at giving up your attempts at being good in order to appease God, and beg for mercy." This is what the whole of the Bible is concerned with, which is, giving up our efforts to appease God.

Well here you've departed from the question you thought was simple. We are now deep in a strange theology that perhaps resembles Calvinism. It is you who seem to be dwelling on a single reported line: "Nobody is good except the Father," and this is true if one associates an absolute meaning to the word. Jesus is observing that the totality of goodness resides with God. Meanwhile on planet earth we can enjoy a good meal, without assuming God made it; we can wish someone good night, without suggesting perfection. Christ is toying with semantics, not offering moral guidance.

As for "Be ye perfect" - he's moved to hyperbole.

In his saner moments he commends good deeds. I haven't heard of the BAD Samaritan - we get from Christ it was the GOOD Samaritan.

I suggest your interpretation of what Christ advised goes against the vast store of instruction he gave - and we needn't here know his verbatim words!

Actually, it's far more telling that Jesus thinks we need to be told to be a good Samaritan and the fact that he tells that story indicates the state he thinks we are in. Don't you think?

I mean a parable of cleaning up your room is probably because most people don't right?

In our saner moments ....

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 4 by marco]

Is it sane for a poor widow to give her last money to a church?

[Wootah]

So instead of being a lifetime of chasing after not sinning at all, instead it become a lifetime of feeling constantly guilty about not being able to be perfect.

So I'm not so sure if that's any better. And it still boils down to morality. It's all about never being "good enough" for God. NEVER!

It's the ultimate guilt trip.

I can't emphasise strongly enough that the opposite is true.

Everyone is striving to be perfect and Jesus is saying you can't be perfect enough.

In Jesus, when he is your Lord, you are putting an end to that guilt trip. Jesus pays it all.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]

Do you regard the 10 commandments as good?

In general, of course, I think everything Jesus asks us to do is good. However, I think it is clearer to understand Jesus as saying be merciful to others.

Where in the Bible does Jesus tell people to be good?

In Luke chapter 6:

33 If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same amount. 35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Thank you. Goodness is couched in the idea of mercy here very clearly.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 16 by Tcg]

for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Just like when he drowned the world or killed all the first born of Egypt.

He didn't end humanity. He didn't kill the second born! Be grateful

[Wootah]

Where in the Bible does Jesus tell people to be good?

I think this means that we should be good:

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat. 5:44-45

After all, "good tree produces good fruit".

Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit. A good tree can't produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree that doesn't grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire. Therefore, by their fruits you will know them.
Matt. 7:17-20

But, good can be very subjective idea, that is why I think Bible speaks more specifically about how people should live. (For example, dont murder).

Matthew 5:44-45 interesting enough only the KJV (from my search) has the line, "do good to those who hate you"
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... SV;EHV;MSG

The thing about a good tree is that cannot help but produce good fruit. That is talking about works after salvation. That fruit is the fruit of the Holy Spirit in you.


edit:

Luke 6:27: 27 But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... SV;EHV;MSG

Good is a very subjective notion when we don't want to do good.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 23 by marco]

What's a bad tree? I take it you are refering to literal trees/literal fruit...so what is "bad fruit" in your opinion? Oranges, lemons?

I don't recall any of Christ's listeners asking this penetrating question. Perhaps they understood what a good tree or a bad tree was without explanation. Clever folk!

In an archard a tree that constantly produces fruit with blemishes might be called a bad tree I suppose but it is not unheard of for such a tree to produce fine fruit now and then. In the non-literal sense a family that riots and causes problems for neighbours might be called a bad family. You may not have heard of such a thing. If they have a son distinguished by his charity and kindness, this would be a bad tree producing good fruit. Not an impossibility, despite what the good Lord opined.

Let's think of a good tree as a Banana tree and a bad tree as a Lemon tree.

Now a banana tree can experience bad weather and can make bad fruit but it can only make bananas it can't make lemons.

As scientists like to say, in standard laboratory conditions the good tree will produce good fruit and the bad tree bad fruit.

[1213]

1213, I admire your defence of your beliefs. I would have thought that the statement: A good tree sometimes bears bad fruit is beyond logical reproach, it being a simple matter of fact. Even a spell of bad weather can affect the fruit crop. But there are numerous reasons why a perfectly good tree might occasionally underperform.

Marco, I admire your perseverance, but it seems to me that you dont have right understanding of what is a bad fruit. Bad fruit would be for example poisonous fruit. If apple tree produces fruit that is not perfect, it doesnt yet mean it is producing bad fruits. It produces apples and it may be that some times apples are not perfect, but they are still apples that are ok.