Who identified Jesus for us?

[marco]

Many believe Jesus was chosen by God to wander around and say nice things. Many believe Jesus was God himself. The question is, on whose authority do people take Jesus to be anything other than a bachelor who lived till he as thirty, with his parents, then spouted the Scripture he'd been fed on?

Who says Jesus was special and what is their qualification for saying so?

And who said Jesus is God and on what basis did they make this claim? In this case, why didn't the claimants explain the problem of two Gods rolled into one?

[1213]

you simply read the words. And the word was God!

Yes, and then one could notice it doesnt say Jesus is God. It literally says, the word was God. So, without interpretations, it becomes quite easy.

And why would you want people to "understand" your private interpretation? It's nice when people agree with you but it doesn't make them right for doing so.

I would like that people understand what the Bible tells. My interpretations are not that important. I think it would be better, if people read directly what Bible tells and then would understand correctly what it means. I think Bible explains itself well and there is no reason to give own meanings to its teachings.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 30 by Tcg]

Every religion has some aspect that is unique or else it wouldn't be considered a separate religion. That uniqueness, that all religions have, says nothing of their truthfulness.

Well in this case it does, because of how unique the thought of the trinity is. No, other thought in literature or the mind of man would have described a being like God.

A simple visit to the TD&D sub forum will reveal the fact that Christianity as a whole does not accept the concept of the trinity nor does it agree that that is the way the Bible describes God.

I understand the beliefs of those on this sight but the doctrine of the trinity has been orthodox teaching of the Christianity for over 1500 years.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 30 by Tcg]

Every religion has some aspect that is unique or else it wouldn't be considered a separate religion. That uniqueness, that all religions have, says nothing of their truthfulness.

Well in this case it does, because of how unique the thought of the trinity is. No, other thought in literature or the mind of man would have described a being like God.

No, it doesn't. As I stated, and you failed to address, all religions have some degree of uniqueness.

A simple visit to the TD&D sub forum will reveal the fact that Christianity as a whole does not accept the concept of the trinity nor does it agree that that is the way the Bible describes God.

I understand the beliefs of those on this sight but the doctrine of the trinity has been orthodox teaching of the Christianity for over 1500 years.

Irrelevant. You made a claim about current Christianity. Your claim is clearly false given the current state of Christianity.


Tcg

[Clownboat]

Something that has always bothered me......the Jews were literate people. If all these miracles were really done in public, how come no one wrote about them? I would have expected these miracles would have been front page news.

I don't think the New York Times was around back then. Besides, someone did write about Jesus' miracles. Namely, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. But I see your point and agree there should be many written records outside of Jesus' inner circle.

Something 'outside' of religious promotional material would be expected...

[Clownboat]

1. Who ever said that Jesus went around saying nice things?

Seven woes he spoke to the scribes and Pharisees

Whos words that men penned should be believed? Those rumored to have been said by Jesus, or those recorded by Paul?
Let's examine the claimed words of Paul to compare to the claimed words of Jesus.

8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.

1 Cor 12:28 Paul says: And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third, teachers.
Eph 4:11 Paul says: And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
1st Tim 2:7 Paul says: For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

1 Cor 4:15 Paul says: For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

Christianity does not accept the concept of the trinity out of convenience but because that is the way that the Bible describes God.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
Mark 12:32
"Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.
Mark 12:34
When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."

The Bible does describe a trinity and it also does not describe a trinity. Take your pick. Heck, jut pick a version of the Bible that agrees with you!

NIV 1st John 5: 7For there are three that testify: 8the a Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
NKJV 1st John 5: 7For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

Even if someone identified Jesus, how could the claim be trusted when we have differing accounts all from the same source?

[1213]

Let's examine the claimed words of Paul to compare to the claimed words of Jesus.

8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.

1 Cor 12:28 Paul says: And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third, teachers.
Eph 4:11 Paul says: And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
1st Tim 2:7 Paul says: For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth

Now, if I tell you what Jesus said and then you follow what Jesus said, who is your teacher, the one whose teaching it is, or the one who told it to you?

9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

1 Cor 4:15 Paul says: For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

This may be more easier translation for you to understand the point:

For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
1 Cor 4:15

Paul have begotten people through the Gospel. So, it is not really Paul, but the Gospel, that is from Jesus. So, essentially, it is again Jesus, not Paul. Paul is only mediator in that.

.
NIV 1st John 5: 7For there are three that testify: 8the a Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
NKJV 1st John 5: 7For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

Even if someone identified Jesus, how could the claim be trusted when we have differing accounts all from the same source?

In this case it would be good to notice, also disciples of Jesus are one with God. If one would mean person is God, then instead of trinity we would actually have legion. Being one with God doesnt mean that all are God. It means we have same will.

I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
John 17:11

that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me.
John 17:21

[Clownboat]

Now, if I tell you what Jesus said and then you follow what Jesus said, who is your teacher, the one whose teaching it is, or the one who told it to you?

There is only one teacher in this scenario. That would be you.

What you are not addressing is this:
Jesus: "You have one teacher"
Paul: "I am your teacher"
1213: "On what authority does Paul procure the title of being the one teacher?"
(But you are not asking this question nor answering it for me).

This may be more easier translation for you to understand the point:

Nice move. Blame my lack of understanding.
Jesus: "Call no man your father"
Paul: "I am your father"

Paul have begotten people through the Gospel. So, it is not really Paul, but the Gospel, that is from Jesus. So, essentially, it is again Jesus, not Paul. Paul is only mediator in that.

I'm calling you out on this!
None of the gospels are from Jesus. He wrote no works. I know this, you should know this and most of our readers know this. So why say this? You think no one would notice?

.
NIV 1st John 5: 7For there are three that testify: 8the a Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
NKJV 1st John 5: 7For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

Even if someone identified Jesus, how could the claim be trusted when we have differing accounts all from the same source?

In this case it would be good to notice,

It would be good for you to notice that I was responding to a claim where the person was saying that the Bible is clear about the Trinity.

I provide verses that show the untruth to his statement and Holy Huddle also evidences such a thing.

also disciples of Jesus are one with God. If one would mean person is God...

I lived the Christain life. I have been set free. Your preaching isn't needed and is against the rules.

Feel free to show that the Bible is clear about the Trinity idea if you are up to it as that would be on topic to the post you replied to.

[1213]

Now, if I tell you what Jesus said and then you follow what Jesus said, who is your teacher, the one whose teaching it is, or the one who told it to you?

There is only one teacher in this scenario. That would be you.

Interesting, I think teacher is the one who is the source of the teaching. So, if I watch for example teaching from internet, internet is the teacher?

Paul: "I am your father"

If we are literally accurate, he doesnt say "I am your father".

None of the gospels are from Jesus. He wrote no works. I know this, you should know this and most of our readers know this. So why say this? You think no one would notice?

I meant in this, Gospel is the good news Jesus declared.

Feel free to show that the Bible is clear about the Trinity idea if you are up to it as that would be on topic to the post you replied to.

It is clear that Trinity is not from the Bible. There is no word Trinity in the Bible. I dont think people who are disciples of Jesus have any Biblical reason to have the idea of Trinity.

[Clownboat]

Interesting, I think teacher is the one who is the source of the teaching. So, if I watch for example teaching from internet, internet is the teacher?

In this case the internet is the vehicle for your teaching. I could use the internet to teach you about fish for example.

Nice distraction though...

It is clear that Trinity is not from the Bible. There is no word Trinity in the Bible. I dont think people who are disciples of Jesus have any Biblical reason to have the idea of Trinity.

Take it up with your fellow Christians.
Earthscienceguy Post 29: "What human mind could come up with the concept of the trinity. There is nothing like it in all of human history it is unique to Christianity. Christianity does not accept the concept of the trinity out of convenience but because that is the way that the Bible describes God."

Your not to blame though. Religions are divisive, even within their own ranks.
I hope one day you will be set free.

Readers, notice the irony here?
I replied to Earthscienceguy to refute his claim about the Trinity concept. He ran from the reply and now I am discussing with yet another Christian about how the Trinity is not a Biblical concept.
Christians refute themselves!

[1213]

In this case the internet is the vehicle for your teaching.

Ok, and I say that Paul is also just a vehicle for teachings of Jesus.

and now I am discussing with yet another Christian about how the Trinity is not a Biblical concept.
Christians refute themselves!

I am only saying; the fact is that Bible has no word Trinity in it. If Christian is truly a disciple of Jesus, he remains in the teachings of Jesus and he doesnt need to have the idea of Trinity and he doesnt have to defend that idea, because it is not given by Jesus.

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32