Bad things in religion

[nobspeople]

Why do you think God allows bad things to happen to people within religion (whichever religion you think is the right one)?

While it's true these things happen to people outside of religion, let's focus on those within religion.

Christians murder people, cheat on and with others (within or outside of said religion) and molest children, for starters, within a 'God fearing and loving religion'. Why do you think God allows that?

Wouldn't he want his flock to be a beacon unto the world for positive things instead of the end of a pointed and accusatory finger?
Or is the reason why God allows this is that he's working his miracle through all these sinful, hateful, terrible things that are done within his organization for his benefit?

Or is this religion a false religion that God doesn't associate with and thus, has no 'dog in the fight'?

[Tcg]

... Is there an atheist canon of behaviour upon which you base your conclusion?

Of course not. An atheist is simply a person who lacks belief in god/gods. If one is curious about atheists, it is advisable to ask an atheist rather than a theist. Asking a theist to explain an atheist is somewhat like asking a Manhattanite what it's like to live in Tanzania.


Tcg

[JehovahsWitness]

... Is there an atheist canon of behaviour upon which you base your conclusion?

Of course not. An atheist is simply a person who lacks belief in god/gods.

Then one has to wonder up on what the following statement is based on . ..

... Stalin was not a true atheist because no true atheist would commit such atrocities. An atheist is someone who follows just rulers and respects the law.. . Atheistically speaking, anyone doing such things disqualifies himself in atheists' eyes from being an atheist.

We can but hope Paul of Tarsus will enlighten us further.




JW

[JoeyKnothead]

As far as I am aware God never removed free will from anyone in the OT. Bad actions had bad consequences. That has not changed. But God seemed to tolerate free will throughout the OT.

So when the pharaoh was ready to capitulate to the demands of Moses but God hardened his heart making him change his mind, wasn't that a violation of his free will?

For all y'all playing the game at home, please turn in your bibles there to Exodus 9:12, fetch the popcorn, and a comfortable seat.

[JoeyKnothead]

... Stalin was not a true atheist because no true atheist would commit such atrocities. An atheist is someone who follows just rulers and respects the law.. . Atheistically speaking, anyone doing such things disqualifies himself in atheists' eyes from being an atheist.

We can but hope Paul of Tarsus will enlighten us further.

That's what we call the no true atheist fallacy. They call it something else in Scotland, but I can't remember what.

Now me, an atheist, I got me a code I live by, but it ain't no more an "atheist code" than biscuits are buffalos.

[Tcg]

... Is there an atheist canon of behaviour upon which you base your conclusion?

Of course not. An atheist is simply a person who lacks belief in god/gods.

Then one has to wonder up on what the following statement is based on . ..

... Stalin was not a true atheist because no true atheist would commit such atrocities. An atheist is someone who follows just rulers and respects the law.. . Atheistically speaking, anyone doing such things disqualifies himself in atheists' eyes from being an atheist.

De can but hope Paul of Tarsus will enlighten us further.


JW

This statement is based on a misunderstanding of what it means to be an atheist. This isn't the first time we've seen such a misunderstanding.


Tcg

[JehovahsWitness]

... Stalin was not a true atheist because no true atheist would commit such atrocities. An atheist is someone who follows just rulers and respects the law.. . Atheistically speaking, anyone doing such things disqualifies himself in atheists' eyes from being an atheist.

This statement is based on a misunderstanding of what it means to be an atheist. This isn't the first time we've seen such a misunderstanding.


Tcg

I'm confident Paul of Tarsus will appreciate your correction. I agree with you on this point; This isn't the first time we've seen such a misunderstanding and in my option will not be the last.

[Tcg]

... Stalin was not a true atheist because no true atheist would commit such atrocities. An atheist is someone who follows just rulers and respects the law.. . Atheistically speaking, anyone doing such things disqualifies himself in atheists' eyes from being an atheist.

This statement is based on a misunderstanding of what it means to be an atheist. This isn't the first time we've seen such a misunderstanding.


Tcg

I'm confident Paul of Tarsus will appreciate your correction. I agree with you on this point; This isn't the first time we've seen such a misunderstanding and in my option will not be the last.

Indeed. It's almost as if some theists are committed to misrepresenting atheists.


Tcg

[nobspeople]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #21]

For the same reason he allow bad things to happen to' anyone, namely to Settle the issue of universal souvereignty.

Couldn't that be done without allowing bad things to happen to people? Surely, someone with the ability to do and create anything could allow such a thing.

No they do not; people CLAIMING to be Christian do.

That's a debate that's never ending: who is and isn't a true Christian. The only thing we can do, for sure, is take them for their word. If they claim they're a Christian - something that's innately personal - we have to take their word for it. Christians aren't perfect.

Yes I believe He would (want his flock to be a beacon unto the world for positive things).

So then, it's more important to Settle the issue of universal souvereignty than to be a positive influence? Seems rather petty. Childlike even.

I dont know any religions that approve of murder, dishonesty and child molesting

It seems any religion that doesn't prevent that when possible and allow those guilty of these things to be punished would be, by action, approving of such things.

Thanks for the opinions!

[nobspeople]

Peace to you!

[Replying to tam in post #9]

No religion is the right religion.

So what are people to do, learn by God on their own (that's an honest question, BTW)?

Yes, though not on their own, but through the Teacher God sent us: His Son, Christ Jaheshua.


I did see the rest of your post and will respond as soon as I can. But I didn't want to leave the above question without an answer.



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

I appreciate you taking the time to respond.
This makes sense. However, this seems to open up the possibility of 'learning the wrong way'. Granted this was 'prior to the actual Jesus on earth', but God didn't seem to do this with Adam and Eve - or a few others in the OT. He stepped in directly as necessary.

[Tcg]

I dont know any religions that approve of murder, dishonesty and child molesting... but if such things were a part of a religions teachings and practices it certainly would not be a religion approved by God.

JW

I can think of three groups that are in the news frequently that are dishonest about the molestation of children that occurs in their ranks. That'd be the JWs, Southern Baptists, and Catholics. Of course they aren't separate religions, but simply branches of the religion known as Christianity.

If this is evidence that a god of some sort would not approve of this religion, I won't argue against that.


Tcg