Why Trust The Bible?

[POI]

Many have rejected the Bible, due to the stories of Genesis alone 'proving' false. The ones, who still remain Christian, either reject science in favor of Genesis, or, instead dismiss the Genesis stories as merely being metaphorical/allegorical. Same goes for the Exodus account. And so on and so forth it goes, on through the entirety of the Torah and beyond. And when one gets to the New Testament, quite a bit of apologetics is required/necessary to explain away apparent 'problems/inconsistencies/discrepancies/other'.

For Debate:

As the title suggests, why place all your trust in this collection of books anyways?

[POI]

God. Once properly conceptualized, I can trust that God exists. But this doesn't mean that God literally did everything the bible says.

So, to "properly conceptualize" the God of the Bible, all the falsifiable stuff, which you personally deem falsified, must have been philosophical/allegorical. But continue to retain faith/belief in the unfalsifiable as being literal, like resurrection claims, because it makes us feel good?

Would refer to the above two posts for additional clarification. But no, I don't think a proper conceptualization of God requires making all the falsifiable stuff philosophical/allegorical. Rather, I think most of the falsifiable stuff (which is essentially storytelling) is just a vehicle for conveying the concept(s), which are the important part. As such, the falsifiable stuff should be used more as material for interpretation to make sure we have the right concept(s), than as a criterion for truth of those concepts.

Those concepts should stand or fall based on whether or not they conform to something in reality, not whether the falsifiable material used to convey them proves false.

A question you need to ask yourself is... What was the intent of these old stories? Meaning, how do you know these old stories were not meant to be literal? If you should find out that the authors thought they were conveying literal events, would that even matter?

[POI]

I might suggest that you should consider Deism.

That conclusion about "Theo" crossed my mind too.

[TRANSPONDER]

I might suggest that you should consider Deism.

That conclusion about "Theo" crossed my mind too.

Indeed. The idea of untrue stories being about a god that his innards tell him (or her..I never check "About Me") is quite familiar symptoms. I may say that when I was doing my search for a possible transcendental reality Out There I used Buddhism (which I was actually skeptical about) as a vehicle for the study.

It also got me places where I might not otherwise have got.

;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaya_Sri_Maha_Bodhi

[1213]

...The prophecy of Tyre is wrong...

If you would be on the right side, why would you need need such false claims? That kind of claims only ruin your reputation and makes atheism look exceptionally weak.

[TRANSPONDER]

...The prophecy of Tyre is wrong...

If you would be on the right side, why would you need need such false claims? That kind of claims only ruin your reputation and makes atheism look exceptionally weak.

If the prophecy of Tyre is correct I would love to be corrected. Please don't cite the ruins in the sea or the Necropolis built outside the city and consider the ruins of the old city being excavated under the new one.

Supposing this gets a reply, it would be easy to post data selected to support prophecy and ignore that which doesn't.

To make the best case some prophecy advocates.

"With the benefit of hindsight we can see that they prophecies were fulfilled with remarkable accuracy. Nebuchadnezzar did ruin the mainland city and make the island subject to him. It was only after his Empire ended that Tyre regained some of her autonomy under the Persians.

The fulfilment of other prophecies are less easy to identify. Zechariah 9:4 predicts that the city would be consumed by fire, but there is no historical record of the city being burnt. Lack of evidence, of course, is not proof of non-fulfilment, but it is possible that this is an example of prophetic hyperbole and is not meant to be taken literally. The same might be said about Ezekiel's prophecy that the city would never be rebuilt (Ezek. 26:14), which is demonstrable untrue if it refers to the aftermath of Alexander's conquest. However, as Douglas Stuart explains:

...the purposeful hyperbole of the prophecy should not be misunderstood literalistically to imply that Tyre would never have habitation after Ezekiel's time. The point, rather, is that God would judge and punish this state, so powerful and successful from a worldly standpoint, because it is the plan of God that eventually all nations will be humbled before Him and that His people alone would enjoy His permanent blessing (Stuart, 1989: 261).

However one understands the prophecy it is a matter of record that visitors to Tyre in the 19th Century reported that the once great city was now a place for the spreading of fishermen's nets (Ezek. 26:5)."

Nebuchadnezzar is a red herring (Easy to write up past events as Prophecy). But it is the aftermath of the Alexandrine siege that is what matters.

We already see the excuses. Hyperbole does not make for prophecy as it doesn't actually have to happen. The excuse that " the prophecy should not be misunderstood literalistically to imply that Tyre would never have habitation after Ezekiel's time. The point, rather, is that God would judge and punish this state," Trying to excuse the fact that the prophecy in terms that were no more than empty threats, means it is known and accepted that the prophecy in any practical way did not come to be.

Attempts are made to fiddle a prophecy. Tyre as 'A shadow of its' former self'(if that is even true) is still Tyre. Indeed even the causeway (a good place to spread nets and maybe dating the time the 'Prophecy' was written) eventually silted up and the modern city coves the whole ancient area, Island,causeway and mainland.

In any practicalway, the prophecy fails, or at least proves nothing.

Now chum, you have work to do or it is you who will add to your currently poor showing ".. only ruin your reputation and makes (your case) look exceptionally weak...."

[1213]

...The prophecy of Tyre is wrong...

If you would be on the right side, why would you need need such false claims? That kind of claims only ruin your reputation and makes atheism look exceptionally weak.

If the prophecy of Tyre is correct I would love to be corrected. Please don't cite the ruins in the sea...

Why do you not accept truth in this? The ruins in the sea shows Bible is correct about this. The Tyre Bible speaks was an island, or in the midst of the sea, and it had daughter cities on the coast. It seems to me that you mix up the coastal city to the actual old Tyre.

They shall destroy the walls of Tyre, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her a bare rock. She shall be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea; for I have spoken it, says the Lord Yahweh; and she shall become a spoil to the nations. Her daughters who are in the field shall be slain with the sword: and they shall know that I am Yahweh.
Ez. 26:4-6

[TRANSPONDER]

...The prophecy of Tyre is wrong...

If you would be on the right side, why would you need need such false claims? That kind of claims only ruin your reputation and makes atheism look exceptionally weak.

If the prophecy of Tyre is correct I would love to be corrected. Please don't cite the ruins in the sea...

Why do you not accept truth in this? The ruins in the sea shows Bible is correct about this. The Tyre Bible speaks was an island, or in the midst of the sea, and it had daughter cities on the coast. It seems to me that you mix up the coastal city to the actual old Tyre.

They shall destroy the walls of Tyre, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her a bare rock. She shall be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea; for I have spoken it, says the Lord Yahweh; and she shall become a spoil to the nations. Her daughters who are in the field shall be slain with the sword: and they shall know that I am Yahweh.
Ez. 26:4-6

No. The ruins in the sea are, so far as I have been able to find out, ruins on the shore and which appear to be of Roman date, anyway, some of which have fallen in the sea if they weren't actually built there.

Whether or not they are or are not, Old Tyre - the city that Alexander attacked - is under the present city, which is Tyre that continued as tyre right up to the present day. The situation is (as I recall I said) that the causeway built from mainland to Island Tyre silted up and became one land mass and the city covers the whole of that area - mainland, causeway and Island. Your attempts to wriggle out of it fail.

The prophecy was wrong and the comment I posted shows this is known and they have to make excuses like it is 'hyperbole'. Which is saying they were never trying to make a prophecy in the first place.

[Hawkins]

Atheists don't even know how to ask questions correctly.

The true question to ask is, if God is true then do you have a better way for such a truth to convey among humans across history?

That's the question shall be asked for an answer to be researched.

To put it another way, by the assumption that God is true (and for the sake of argument), if you can't find out a better way (i.e., than the Bible and Judaism/Christianity) for such a truth to convey, then it is reasonable to believe what the Bible says.

Similarly, why do you have to rely on a media to get to the truths? It is because it's already the best you can get to a truth. Say, you are living in the US and now there's a car incident occurred in England. The most effective way for you to get to such a piece of truth is by means of a media, as a media is responsible of examining the credibility of eyewitnesses claims then conveys the story to you. Now how about another incident occurred in England 60 years ago? Which way do you think that you can get to the details?

Atheists basically are those trusting their human intelligence while their intelligence making mistakes which leading to their doom. It is your intelligence or the lack thereof which leads to the death, just as the Bible prophecied. The day you eat of it, the same day you shall surely die!

[TRANSPONDER]

Atheists don't even know how to ask questions correctly.

The true question to ask is, if God is true then do you have a better way for such a truth to convey among humans across history?

That's the question shall be asked for an answer to be researched.

The question has been framed before and the response by atheists and Bible critics alike is, "It is rather hard to think of a worse way of conveying '"such a Truth" among humans, than a tatty old book, full of fallacy, nonsense and illogic in a language that had to be translated several times and did not start to get around the globe until the time of colonisation, thanks a lot, God for using Conquest for making the truth known. It is one of the major reasons why (and it doesn't need much research, just a mind that is a little bit open) i am totally convinced the bible is the work of men, not of a god.

[Hawkins]

Atheists don't even know how to ask questions correctly.

The true question to ask is, if God is true then do you have a better way for such a truth to convey among humans across history?

That's the question shall be asked for an answer to be researched.

The question has been framed before and the response by atheists and Bible critics alike is, "It is rather hard to think of a worse way of conveying '"such a Truth" among humans, than a tatty old book, full of fallacy, nonsense and illogic in a language that had to be translated several times and did not start to get around the globe until the time of colonisation, thanks a lot, God for using Conquest for making the truth known. It is one of the major reasons why i am totally convinced the bible is the work of men, not of a god.

That behavior is rather prophecied in Isaiah 6:9. It reflects the stupidity of human kind, mostly the atheists are educated to behave so, 'thanks' to our education system since childhood. Don't underestimate the education or anything forced upon us systematically since childhood.

Isaiah 6:9:
Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.

Humans don't know what they are doing, they don't even know how to ask a quesiton correclty!