Obvious Designer?

[POI]

Otseng's statement: "This is the variation of the omnipotent God argument by imagining a hypothetical perfect design. There is no need for God to be a "perfect" designer.

In human designs as well, things are not perfect and have flaws, but they are still designed. Nobody claims since iPhones have flaws in them that Apple engineers are either crappy designers or they don't exist at all."

*****************************

There is just so much to flesh out in this cluster of statements, I do not know where to begin. I guess we can start here and see where this goes.

For Debate: Is it obvious humans were designed, or not? Please explain why or why not. If you believe so, does this design lead more-so towards...

a) an intelligent designer?
b) an unintelligent designer?
c) a deceptive designer?

Like all other topics, let's see where this one goes.... And for funsies, here is a 10-minute video -- optional, but begins to put forth a case for options b) or c), if "designed" at all:

[POI]

Well, the bladder is a sterile field embedded within an unsterile one. The GI tract is a deeply unsterile field embedded in a sterile one. And women obviously lived long enough to increase the human race exponentially so not a problem.

Before the aid of medical science, at a much lower rate. Poor design, at best.

Truthfully, death in childbirth was way more common than UTIs which have some non-antibiotic treatments.

We haven't got there yet. Still addressing UTI's. "Poor design", if any, lead to the necessity for treatment.

I just checked a list of mortality in the 1800s and UTIs didn’t make the list.

Did I say it was the #1 or #12 killer? No. I'm stating poor design, deceptive design, or no design, leads to UTI's.

[POI]

...Some of which have to do with 1) legal sex between a married couple, 2) improper whipping, or 3) having a much shorter urethra than a male. Do you opt for B) inept design, or C) a deceptive design, or D) no designer? It cannot be A) 'intelligent design'.

I think the reason for all the problems people have is that people rejected God.

Up until a few decades ago, countless women died from UTI''s. Now, most don't because we invented antibiotics. Before this, such unknown/unidentified/undiagnosed UTI deaths would instead mistakenly be associated with 'evil'. Anything folks didn't/don't understand were/are either associated to 'God did it' or 'evil did it'. The God of the gaps keeps getting smaller and smaller.

Where’s the evidence for this? For any of this? And the fact is, antibiotics were discovered almost 100 years ago, not decades ago. Your information is way off.

Let me guess.... UTI's were not a thing until we labeled "UTI's" as such?

[Mae von H]

Well, the bladder is a sterile field embedded within an unsterile one. The GI tract is a deeply unsterile field embedded in a sterile one. And women obviously lived long enough to increase the human race exponentially so not a problem.

Before the aid of medical science, at a much lower rate. Poor design, at best.

No, that design was never a problem in female mortality according to the records. Small Pox killed, Diptheria killed, Cholera killed. The list is long and UTIs aren’t on it. You are prejudicially mistaken.

Truthfully, death in childbirth was way more common than UTIs which have some non-antibiotic treatments.

We haven't got there yet. Still addressing UTI's. "Poor design", if any, lead to the necessity for treatment.

You’ve offered no solution and proximity of uterus to bladder is not a cause of UTIs. Never has been.

I just checked a list of mortality in the 1800s and UTIs didn’t make the list.

Did I say it was the #1 or #12 killer? No. I'm stating poor design, deceptive design, or no design, leads to UTI's.

UTIs often clear up without meds. I read a study where they gave pain killers to half the UTIs and half antibiotics. The recovery rate was the same. I looked into this because I get them. Sometimes I use antibiotics but sometimes not, although I prefer them. So no, there is no evidence of poor design. Disease does not mean poor design.

[Mae von H]

...Some of which have to do with 1) legal sex between a married couple, 2) improper whipping, or 3) having a much shorter urethra than a male. Do you opt for B) inept design, or C) a deceptive design, or D) no designer? It cannot be A) 'intelligent design'.

I think the reason for all the problems people have is that people rejected God.

Up until a few decades ago, countless women died from UTI''s. Now, most don't because we invented antibiotics. Before this, such unknown/unidentified/undiagnosed UTI deaths would instead mistakenly be associated with 'evil'. Anything folks didn't/don't understand were/are either associated to 'God did it' or 'evil did it'. The God of the gaps keeps getting smaller and smaller.

Where’s the evidence for this? For any of this? And the fact is, antibiotics were discovered almost 100 years ago, not decades ago. Your information is way off.

Let me guess.... UTI's were not a thing until we labeled "UTI's" as such?

UTIs are generally deadly only in the very old although the condition shouldn’t be ignored due to possible kidney involvement. Nevertheless before antibiotics other diseases including tuberculosis were deadly. A UTI pales in comparison. Pick a different organ.

[Mae von H]

...Some of which have to do with 1) legal sex between a married couple, 2) improper whipping, or 3) having a much shorter urethra than a male. Do you opt for B) inept design, or C) a deceptive design, or D) no designer? It cannot be A) 'intelligent design'.

I think the reason for all the problems people have is that people rejected God.

Up until a few decades ago, countless women died from UTI''s. Now, most don't because we invented antibiotics. Before this, such unknown/unidentified/undiagnosed UTI deaths would instead mistakenly be associated with 'evil'. Anything folks didn't/don't understand were/are either associated to 'God did it' or 'evil did it'. The God of the gaps keeps getting smaller and smaller.

Where’s the evidence for this? For any of this? And the fact is, antibiotics were discovered almost 100 years ago, not decades ago. Your information is way off.

Let me guess.... UTI's were not a thing until we labeled "UTI's" as such?

UTIs are generally deadly only in the very old although the condition shouldn’t be ignored due to possible kidney involvement. Nevertheless before antibiotics other diseases including tuberculosis were deadly. A UTI pales in comparison. Pick a different organ.

[William]

Otseng's statement: "This is the variation of the omnipotent God argument by imagining a hypothetical perfect design. There is no need for God to be a "perfect" designer.

In human designs as well, things are not perfect and have flaws, but they are still designed. Nobody claims since iPhones have flaws in them that Apple engineers are either crappy designers or they don't exist at all."

*****************************

There is just so much to flesh out in this cluster of statements, I do not know where to begin. I guess we can start here and see where this goes.

For Debate: Is it obvious humans were designed, or not? Please explain why or why not. If you believe so, does this design lead more-so towards...

a) an intelligent designer?
b) an unintelligent designer?
c) a deceptive designer?

Like all other topics, let's see where this one goes.... And for funsies, here is a 10-minute video -- optional, but begins to put forth a case for options b) or c), if "designed" at all:

For Debate: Is it obvious humans were designed, or not?

For some it is and for some it is not.

If you believe so, does this design lead more-so towards...an intelligent designer?

I think it is obvious, yes. I also think that if humans were designed, then we have to extend that to everything else (The Universe)...

an unintelligent designer?

That would depend upon the objectives of the designer, given the role of humankind. Perhaps the design was meant to be as it is. Perhaps it is not the body which is acting unintelligent but the mind within the makeup of the body.

Perhaps the body is designed that way to produce that result or perhaps it was not known that the body would cause the mind to be retarded.

Those types of questions would have to be addressed in order to try to get closer to intelligent answers.

c) a deceptive designer?

This would bring in the additional question "why?" and with it the necessity to understand whether the deception was intended for evil or good (re the act and consequences) and how a (supposedly) flawed human could possibly get to know the actual difference.

The body may have been made in such a way that it retarded the mind using it, including that mind not being able to detect everything which can be detected (as scientific instruments have shown) and thus limiting the mind primarily to the human experience.

(MORE)

This post was specific to answering the OP. Hopefully the creator of this thread will address the points made, if indeed there is anything therein which the poster takes issue with.

Otherwise, the OP question is suitably answered.

[POI]

Mae No, that design was never a problem in female mortality according to the records..

POI If the short and sterile field was not 'designed' to be embedded within this very unsterile cavity, as well as being 'designed' to be very close to another very unsterile cavity, women would get far less UTI's.

Mae Small Pox killed, Diptheria killed, Cholera killed.

POI Cool your jets. We are not there yet. We are still merely focused on UTI's.

Mae You’ve offered no solution and proximity of uterus to bladder is not a cause of UTIs. Never has been.

POI Isn't the 'solution', or updated design, already obvious? I hinted at it above. Some needed "design" updates, which cause less unwarranted harm, goes without saying. 

Mae UTIs often clear up without meds. I read a study where they gave pain killers to half the UTIs and half antibiotics. The recovery rate was the same. I looked into this because I get them. Sometimes I use antibiotics but sometimes not, although I prefer them. So no, there is no evidence of poor design. Disease does not mean poor design.

POI If the body was designed better, you would not get so many UTI's, and/or would not wonder if the UTI would, or would not, require medical Tx. So again, your choices are a) inept design, b) deceptive design, or c) no design?

[POI]

UTIs are generally deadly only in the very old although the condition shouldn’t be ignored due to possible kidney involvement. Nevertheless before antibiotics other diseases including tuberculosis were deadly. A UTI pales in comparison. Pick a different organ.

All I read here is more Christian apologetics, to rationalize the conformation that this set of organs is either designed by an a) inept creator, b) a deceptive creator, c) or no creator.

[William]

UTIs are generally deadly only in the very old although the condition shouldn’t be ignored due to possible kidney involvement. Nevertheless before antibiotics other diseases including tuberculosis were deadly. A UTI pales in comparison. Pick a different organ.

All I read here is more Christian apologetics, to rationalize the conformation that this set of organs is either designed by an a) inept creator, b) a deceptive creator, c) or no creator.

Even so, that is not all that is to be read here.

There is also this.

[POI]

I think it is obvious, yes.

Why?