"Slavery" in the Bible

[POI]

Allow us readers to be very careful. We must make sure we identify the proper context here, to assure against hasty and/or self-serving conclusions.

Exodus 21:2-3:

"2 "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him." <-- Okay, this seems clear enough, if you are a purchased Hebrew, with a wife, you are both to go free in year 7.

Exodus 21:4:

"4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free." <-- Here is where things start to look sketchy for the modern-day believer. If the slave is provided with a wife, and they have kids, the wife and kids are to stay with the slave master. They are not to go free.

Exodus 21:5-6:

"5 "But if the servant declares, I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free, 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." <-- More uncomfortability for the Christian here. Without getting into the weeds, common sense suggests a special rule is made to trick the male Hebrew into remaining a slave for life.

Leviticus 25:44-46:

"44 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." <-- More awkwardness for the believer, as the Bible reader clammers to find a rationale to make this passage not read the way it does.

Here is a basic definition of chattel slavery --> "Chattel slavery is full slavery in its traditional form whereby slaves are the complete property of their master, can be bought and sold by him and treated in any way that he wishes, which may include torture and other brutality, excessively bad working conditions, and sexual exploitation"

Looks like all the ingredients fit the given Bible description here, minus the torture. Wait a minute, this is covered in the rest of Exodus 21. (i.e.):

"20 "Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." <-- So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?

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Before you answer, consider this.... Since the NT does not mention the abolition of 'slavery', and yet the Bible makes further proclamation(s) and/or addendums (in favor of retaining 'slavery',) this means the Bible is not against chattel slavery either. Further, the Christian may want to introduce the importance of the 'golden rule'. However, the specifics outweigh the generals. The specifics of the rules for engagement of slavery are outside the 'golden rule'. Otherwise, the Bible would be a one-pager. 'Slavery' is an expressed exception to the general rule. Thus, anytime a specific scenario is not invoked, yes, 'golden rule.'

[POI]

... This means the enslaved themselves can be enslaved against their will, in certain instances.

That would be kidnapping and also against the golden rule. But, obviously it is clear now that you don't like the parts that don't fit to your propaganda.

You obviously made no attempt or effort to address post 292. Otherwise, you would then realize that your response is just another strawman argument. Since you refuse, I will enlighten you.

a) Chattel slavery is an expressed exception to the "golden rule". Why? The Bible endorses chattel slavery practices, as instructed. As stated many times now, if the Bible does not offer caveats or exceptions, then yes, follow the 'golden rule.' Case/point, traffic laws do not always apply to the police or medical. These are exceptions or caveats. The traffic laws are the general rules, and there exists many exceptions.

b) Differing rules are applied to differing groups. --- God > Jesus > man > woman > Hebrew slave > female/foreign/offspring slave > livestock > physical objects

c) It is illogical to label an act as 'kidnapping' when the law permits it. Specific laws pertaining to chattel slavery are endorsed by the Bible God. Certain forms of chattel slavery are sanctioned by law. In some cases, it is the father's decision to hand over the daughter, not the daughter. Hence, it matters not of the actual enslaved daughter's will. Further, as another modern example, when child protective services come and take a child, against the child's will, this is not kidnapping. The law permits this action. Just like the law permits chattel slavery.

d) God has no problem telling folks what is, and is not, a sin. God does not tell folks that enslaving folks for life, and also treating them as property for life, is ever a sin. In fact, God does the opposite. He endorses these rules.

e) Further, no one in their right mind would ever willfully volunteer to be someone else's lifetime property, with laws which also grant complete immunity for beatings. This is why the Bible has to instruct or endorse these activities as okay anyways.

Nice try though

[1213]

a) Chattel slavery is an expressed exception to the "golden rule". Why? The Bible endorses chattel slavery practices....

...With conditions like "love your neighbor as yourself".

....It is illogical to label an act as 'kidnapping' when the law permits it. ...

The law clearly says that one can't capture anyone and keep that person against his will.

Anyone who kidnaps someone and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
Exod. 21:16

that simply makes it impossible to have someone as a slave against that persons will.

[TRANSPONDER]

a) Chattel slavery is an expressed exception to the "golden rule". Why? The Bible endorses chattel slavery practices....

...With conditions like "love your neighbor as yourself".

....It is illogical to label an act as 'kidnapping' when the law permits it. ...

The law clearly says that one can't capture anyone and keep that person against his will.

Anyone who kidnaps someone and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
Exod. 21:16

that simply makes it impossible to have someone as a slave against that persons will.

Same problem of fiddling, cherry picking and quotemining. I'll have a look but I'll predict that these are laws given to Hebrews to apply to other hebrews and do not apply to foreign slaves which, the Bible clearly says, may be bought and kept as chattels for life.

Exodus 21.2 "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years.

All of that passage relates to Hebrews. i recall that foreigners living amongst the Hebrews are to be treated by the same laws, religion aside, but this does not apply to foreign slaves.

Leviticus 25.44 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Several have tried to use the 'Play nice' exhortations to cloak the bible so the explicit endorsement of chattel slavery for foreign slaves, but it does not work.

You may deceive yourself, but you cannot fool us. What you do, and wonderfully well, is to make us thankful we don't have to bamboozle ourselves like that, Nor do we find ourselves pushed to mislead others because of faithbased bias.

And since we get the repeated attempt as excuses, am I trying patience by the same vid, yet again? No, it's always worth a watch.

[POI]

...With conditions like "love your neighbor as yourself".

Yes. I've explained why, several times, for which you have flat out ignored several times.

The law clearly says that one can't capture anyone and keep that person against his will.

Again, I have also spoken to this. You simply refuse to address.

Anyone who kidnaps someone and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
Exod. 21:16

that simply makes it impossible to have someone as a slave against that persons will.

1) Then every daughter, who does not willfully decide to be kept for life, as property, can ignore their father's actions (i.e.):

"7 "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do."

Please note the hierarchy: God > Jesus > man > woman > Hebrew slave > female/foreign/offspring slave > livestock > physical objects. The law states the woman cannot go free, which means rules differ for men.

2) Here is another exception, where the enslaved are enslaved against their will (i.e.):

" the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free."

3) As stated, many times now, there exists general rules. The 'golden rule' and 'don't kidnap' are general rules. But there exist many exceptions to general rules, as explained ad nauseum. I've explained this in detail. You have done nothing but ignore these basic concepts, likely out of apologetic convenience.

[1213]

...As stated, many times now, there exists general rules. The 'golden rule' and 'don't kidnap' are general rules. But there exist many exceptions to general rules, as explained ad nauseum. I've explained this in detail. You have done nothing but ignore these basic concepts, likely out of apologetic convenience.

The problem with your claim is that there is nothing in the Bible supporting it.

[1213]

...you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly....

Thank you for bringing that up. That is also a good scripture against keeping people as slaves against their will.

[TRANSPONDER]

...As stated, many times now, there exists general rules. The 'golden rule' and 'don't kidnap' are general rules. But there exist many exceptions to general rules, as explained ad nauseum. I've explained this in detail. You have done nothing but ignore these basic concepts, likely out of apologetic convenience.

The problem with your claim is that there is nothing in the Bible supporting it.

Yes there is. Slavery being the touchstone example of Bad biblical morality. But Even the Golden rule itself 'What another does not wish done to them, I do not want to do to them' gets perverted in the NT into something like "What I would wish them to do to me, if I were them, I wish to do to them" Which is an interference charter, the antithesis of the Golden Rule.

Respect for others and their choices is basic in humanism, lack of respect for others and their choices, if different from the Believers' is that basic moral failing of religion.

...you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly....

Thank you for bringing that up. That is also a good scripture against keeping people as slaves against their will.

I will give you to opportunity of retracting that. Otherwise i will demand a retraction with an apology.

That specifically relates to Israelites, not foreign slaves.

And since you are on the edge of Sauce, don't think of trying to pull 'What is a Hebrew/Israelite' again, as that evasion didn't work. Let Jews decide what is a Jew ofr a foreigner, the rule remains, treating Israelites nicely does not in any way at all protect foreign slaves.

I repeat, that might have been an honest error, don't make it worse by doubling down.

[POI]

...As stated, many times now, there exists general rules. The 'golden rule' and 'don't kidnap' are general rules. But there exist many exceptions to general rules, as explained ad nauseum. I've explained this in detail. You have done nothing but ignore these basic concepts, likely out of apologetic convenience.

The problem with your claim is that there is nothing in the Bible supporting it.

Yes, 1213, there is noted exceptions to these general stated rules. The real problem is that you have ignored them, many times now.

Exceptions to the "golden rule", regarding endorsed slavery practices:

1) A child born into slavery can be held against their will, as property, for life (Ex. 21:4-6)
2) An adult woman can be held against her will, as property, for life (Ex. 21:4-6)
3) The daughter of a father can be held against her will, as property, for life (Ex. 21:7)
4) Non-Israelites can be held against their will, as property, for life (Lev. 25:44-46)

Exceptions for 'kidnapping':

1) It's not kidnapping if you keep offspring (Ex. 21:4-6)
2) It's not kidnapping if the father gives the daughter to the slave master (Ex.21:7)
3) It's not kidnapping if a slave master purchases certain non-Israelites (Lev. 25)

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You do understand that exceptions exist to many general rules, right? In your case above, the Bible was gracious enough to express these exceptions. Below are just a few more random examples of general rules, for which you and I know have exceptions:

a) 'no forearms beyond this point'
b) 'reds lights'
c) 'the line starts here'
d) 'reservations required'

[1213]

...
That specifically relates to Israelites, not foreign slaves.....

And everyone living in Israel would be an Israelite.

[1213]

...
You do understand that exceptions exist to many general rules, right?

Yes, that is what you claim. But why do you think you are the God, to determine what is an exception? Don't you understand that i don't follow you? I want to be loyal to Jesus and God and live by their teachings, not yours.