Where's God?

[POI]

Does he pop up in my dreams? Is he the one whom produces my goose-bumps? Is He the one giving me my "moral compass"? Is he only experienced during deep meditation? If I have enough faith, will he appear to me? But seriously. Where is he? I was a Christian for decades. I earnestly prayed for him to reach me, to no avail.

For debate: Why have I not felt his presence?

A) I never tried hard enough; lack faith
B) He does not want to reveal Himself to me (yet)
C) Evil is blocking the request(s)
D) I'm too dumb to realize he's reaching me
E) He's not really there at all <- Current conclusion

Do not answer yet. This topic has spawned from another unrelated topic. I decided to devote this large topic to itself. Below are some premises:

P1) does god exist? (dunno)
P2) does god want a relationship with all, especially the ones who seek him (apparently so)
P3) is god capable of communicating (apparently so)
P4) can god communicate his message in a way in which the recipient could no longer deny (apparently so)
P5) have I asked for this communication earnestly and repetitively (YES)
P6) does the Bible state god answers the call to all who seek him (YES)

At best, god has opted not to contact me YET. And this would be after decades of actively seeking him. Without any emotion, I'm logically left with 2 options.

A) God is not really there <- Current conclusion.
B) God is not adhering to his promise (yet).

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to OneJack in post #357]

God has appointed and uses preachers and teachers, according to the following passages, @OneJack, but what do you care since you don't think that Bible is God's Book, right? But it is God's inspired Book:

Eph 4:11  And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 
Eph 4:12  to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 
Eph 4:13  until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 
Eph 4:14  so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 
Eph 4:15  Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 
Eph 4:16  from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love. 

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 
2Ti 3:17  that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. 
2Ti 4:1  I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 
2Ti 4:2  preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 

1Co 12:4  Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 
1Co 12:5  and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 
1Co 12:6  and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. 
1Co 12:7  To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 
1Co 12:8  For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 
1Co 12:9  to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 
1Co 12:10  to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 
1Co 12:11  All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. 
1Co 12:12  For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 
1Co 12:13  For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit. 
1Co 12:14  For the body does not consist of one member but of many....
1Co 12:28  And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.  

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #357]

God has appointed and uses preachers and teachers, according to the following passages, @OneJack, but what do you care since you don't think that Bible is God's Book, right? But it is God's inspired Book:

Eph 4:11  And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 
Eph 4:12  to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 
Eph 4:13  until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 
Eph 4:14  so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 
Eph 4:15  Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 
Eph 4:16  from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love. 

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 
2Ti 3:17  that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. 
2Ti 4:1  I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 
2Ti 4:2  preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 

1Co 12:4  Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 
1Co 12:5  and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 
1Co 12:6  and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. 
1Co 12:7  To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 
1Co 12:8  For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 
1Co 12:9  to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 
1Co 12:10  to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 
1Co 12:11  All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. 
1Co 12:12  For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 
1Co 12:13  For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit. 
1Co 12:14  For the body does not consist of one member but of many....
1Co 12:28  And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.  

Paul is not God, Bruce. Don't you see that? What hampers you from coming to and calling on the Almighty God so that the truth may come to you from God Himself? Why are you so obsessed with the bible that it controls you totally in your spiritual life? The verses you posted are not God's words but Paul's.

[wannabe]

I read only a few posts on this thread.
This is my advice to all who seek God.

First seek righteousness, what it is to do right and not wrong. From any source.
And when you find the truth about righteousness and apply it to your life, then God will seek you out.
And as an atheist, if he doesn't, what have you lost. But he will.

But if you wait for God to present himself to you before you accept his existence, then your prayers reach the nothing as you choose to believe.

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to OneJack in post #362]

You're right, @OneJack, that Paul is not God, but God chooses and commissions him to represent him in preaching to and establishing churches:

Act 9:10  Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” 
Act 9:11  And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, 
Act 9:12  and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” 
Act 9:13  But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. 
Act 9:14  And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” 
Act 9:15  But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. 
Act 9:16  For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.” 

And God called and commissioned others to preach and teach his Word:

Isa 6:8  And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” Then I said, “Here I am! Send me.” 
Isa 6:9  And he said, “Go, and say to this people: “‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand; keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’ 

Jer 2:1  The word of the LORD came to me, saying, 
Jer 2:2  “Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem, Thus says the LORD, “I remember the devotion of your youth, your love as a bride, how you followed me in the wilderness, in a land not sown. 
Jer 2:3  Israel was holy to the LORD, the firstfruits of his harvest. All who ate of it incurred guilt; disaster came upon them, declares the LORD.” 

All the prophets write that the word of the Lord has come to them and that they have to share it with the people. Also, Jesus sends out his disciples to proclaim his gospel:

Mat 10:5  These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, 
Mat 10:6  but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 
Mat 10:7  And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 

Therefore, the Lord tells his people to proclaim his will that is revealed in his Word, which he has given to the prophets and the apostles in the form of the Bible. Paul is just carrying out Jesus' commission:

Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 
Mat 28:19  Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 
Mat 28:20  teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” 

That ministry was Jesus' one for me to do for 27 years in seven churches.

[POI]

I read only a few posts on this thread.

Then I will provide you with what you have missed, as your responses below have already been extensively debunked in this thread.

This is my advice to all who seek God. First seek righteousness, what it is to do right and not wrong. From any source.

Then Saul of Tarsus would not have qualified, as Jesus sought Saul out while making no such efforts towards said 'righteousness'. Further, Romans 3 states that 'faith' is the path to salvation, not actual 'righteousness' through (right or wrong). Meaning, righteous equals faith. And Saul did not develop this faith until after Jesus had decided to bonk him over the head unsolicited-style, to fetch Saul's attention.

Since you have started off upon the wrong premise, what you stated below becomes null and void to address.

************************

As I've already expressed, Jesus remains the best (hide-and-go-seek) contestant for me, and many.

[wannabe]

[Replying to POI in post #365]

In response to POI

In your video example, if you know the law and you go against it, then you suffer the consequences.

Is all of man's law coercive because of the consequences of breaking the law.
Are we coerced into not murdering because of the law and its consequences.
Are we coerced into not torturing or raping or stealing because of the law and its consequences.

If you feel you only pay your taxes because you are coerced into doing so because of the law and its consequences, where is the love for that law.

Which of gods laws do you feel are coercive or not worth loving. And can you show me where it sais it is Gods law to choose heaven or hell.

If you hate the law then you are truly being coerced by its consequences , but Gods law is not coercive.
I think men confuse coerciveness with stern warnings.

is choosing to have respect for the law an act , being of or due to coercion.
If so it shows no respect for that law.
Are there none of Gods laws that you respect?, to the point of being coerced.
If you don't feel you can follow Gods law with respect for it, then feel free to feel coerced into accepting his offer of heaven. (I personally choose heaven because of what it offers, not coercion. Is the cup half full or half empty.
Fear God because he is mighty, fear hell because it's bad.
True advice, where is the coercion.

It's always been black and white, heaven and hell ,Jesus and fire. But never coercion. Just facts.
You choose.

[wannabe]

In your video example, which part don't you like.
The consequences, paying taxes, or the fact that it is the law, or being warned of the consequences, or the person's attitude towards the law (which doesn't change the law or its consequences.

Which part do you hate.
The consequences, paying taxes, or the fact that it is law, or being warned of the consequences or the person's attitude.

Is it not the law in this scenario that you find coercive, not the deliverer of the law (but maybes his attitude) .
Do you see Jesus as having a hating attitude or a loving one.

So again, which law from Jesus do you oppose.
(The answer is the reason you may feel coerced).
Or how can one feel coerced for rejecting the teachings of Jesus).
You can't change what is. It's black and white, pick a path or show me an alternative. (Choices?)

Seems your gripe with God pushes you away from him and I understood you wanted to move closer to God.
But if you believe there is no God, how can you have a gripe with him or move closer, or hate the coercion of someone who doesn't exist.
And if God is man made, then it is man's coercion into...nothing, you are understanding.

But if god exists, heed his warnings and don't feel coerced, pushed or made to choose heaven.
Just use your own brain.

[wannabe]

This was originally an apology for my spelling mistakes but I found the edit button.

[wannabe]

A big apology, my prior two posts were meant to be posted in " free will" not "where's God".

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #362]

You're right, @OneJack, that Paul is not God, but God chooses and commissions him to represent him in preaching to and establishing churches:

Act 9:10  Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” 
Act 9:11  And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, 
Act 9:12  and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” 
Act 9:13  But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. 
Act 9:14  And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” 
Act 9:15  But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. 
Act 9:16  For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.” 

And God called and commissioned others to preach and teach his Word:

Isa 6:8  And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” Then I said, “Here I am! Send me.” 
Isa 6:9  And he said, “Go, and say to this people: “‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand; keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’ 

Jer 2:1  The word of the LORD came to me, saying, 
Jer 2:2  “Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem, Thus says the LORD, “I remember the devotion of your youth, your love as a bride, how you followed me in the wilderness, in a land not sown. 
Jer 2:3  Israel was holy to the LORD, the firstfruits of his harvest. All who ate of it incurred guilt; disaster came upon them, declares the LORD.” 

All the prophets write that the word of the Lord has come to them and that they have to share it with the people. Also, Jesus sends out his disciples to proclaim his gospel:

Mat 10:5  These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, 
Mat 10:6  but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 
Mat 10:7  And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 

Therefore, the Lord tells his people to proclaim his will that is revealed in his Word, which he has given to the prophets and the apostles in the form of the Bible. Paul is just carrying out Jesus' commission:

Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 
Mat 28:19  Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 
Mat 28:20  teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” 

That ministry was Jesus' one for me to do for 27 years in seven churches.

No arguments that Paul is an apostle, okay? The worst thing that you don't see is the fact that Paul is long gone, and he can no longer teach you. What ministry are you talking about when Paul is long gone? His job is done with, too. The one who can teach us today is the Lord Jesus Christ. We all have to come to Jesus and ask Him to guide us to our salvation and eternal life, which do not reside in the bible that you are so obsessed with that you almost elevate it to the throne of God.