The paradox of Pain and Evil

[liamconnor]

The notion of a good God is incompatible with the world as we experience it: i.e., disease, violence, famine, etc. In other words, if God were as good as the Christians tell us, the world would be infinitely better.

Thus we conclude that there either there is no God or, if there is, it is something indifferent to good and evil.

So then, under this worldview (no God, or an indifferent power), where derives our idea that this world is not as good as it can be? Where in fact derives our standard of goodness by which we reject the notion of a good God?

[Bust Nak]

Perfection of evil if a fact does demonstrate that there is no moral quality to the simple word 'perfection' which so many people use to only mean a fullness of goodness. There is no vaunted ideal of perfection that makes perfection in evil to be a good of any kind. Only perfection in righteousness is perfectly, completely morally good...perfection in evil is perfectly, completely morally bad. Gradations of evil are found throughout the bible but I like this one: 2 Timothy 3:13...while evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. to indicate that the evil ones do indeed get worse, ie, more perfect and complete in their evil.

You have missed my point I think. I was not implying that perfectly evil is perfect. I am trying to get you to affirm the very opposite.

In my earlier post I mentioned b) a creator whose creations will all end up perfect. You wanted to merge that with my a) a creator whose creations (a fraction there of) will end up perfectly evil. You can't do that unless perfectly evil is perfect.

[dio9]

The notion of a good God is incompatible with the world as we experience it: i.e., disease, violence, famine, etc. In other words, if God were as good as the Christians tell us, the world would be infinitely better.

Thus we conclude that there either there is no God or, if there is, it is something indifferent to good and evil.

So then, under this worldview (no God, or an indifferent power), where derives our idea that this world is not as good as it can be? Where in fact derives our standard of goodness by which we reject the notion of a good God?

The world as it is , is the world as it is. There is nothing evil about a fox catching chipmunks and moles to feed its young, big fish eating little fish. Life in this biosphere feeds on itself . This is not evil.
Evil only exists in the mind of Man. In the hubris that we are something other than and better than the rest of the biosphere.

[ttruscott]

this is the classic question why do bad things happen to good people. does this mean there is no God? Atheists argue it does. but really? This is just the way it is birth and death. Really open your mind, Go Mega Life is suffering , there is nothing evil about it. Do your best not to suffer in your head.

If the new heaven and the new earth are the culmination of GOD's plan for us, then it seems most likely that this time of suffering and death is a detour forced on HIM by the actions/choices of someone else since there is no other logical reason for starting out so badly to have life end so well.

[ttruscott]

Perfection of evil if a fact does demonstrate that there is no moral quality to the simple word 'perfection' which so many people use to only mean a fullness of goodness. There is no vaunted ideal of perfection that makes perfection in evil to be a good of any kind. Only perfection in righteousness is perfectly, completely morally good...perfection in evil is perfectly, completely morally bad. Gradations of evil are found throughout the bible but I like this one: 2 Timothy 3:13...while evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. to indicate that the evil ones do indeed get worse, ie, more perfect and complete in their evil.

You have missed my point I think. I was not implying that perfectly evil is perfect. I am trying to get you to affirm the very opposite.

...that perfect evil is imperfect???

In my earlier post I mentioned b) a creator whose creations will all end up perfect. You wanted to merge that with my a) a creator whose creations (a fraction there of) will end up perfectly evil. You can't do that unless perfectly evil is perfect.

I thought you were using perfect to have a positive connotation as proper and righteous...perfect does not contain that perspective as there is such a thing as perfect evil which is horrendously improper and corrupt.

[Bust Nak]

You have missed my point I think. I was not implying that perfectly evil is perfect. I am trying to get you to affirm the very opposite.

...that perfect evil is imperfect???

Yes! I want you to tell me, explicitly that perfect evil is imperfect, can you do that?

I thought you were using perfect to have a positive connotation as proper and righteous...perfect does not contain that perspective as there is such a thing as perfect evil which is horrendously improper and corrupt.

Yes, that was exactly what I was doing. Perfect is a positive connotation as proper and righteous, therefore perfectly evil, is not in fact perfect. I want you to affirm that explicitly because you said something very weird in post #31 and #35 that implied perfectly evil was in itself perfection.