Lack of knowledge of the Bible?

[Zzyzx]

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Lack of knowledge of the Bible?

It is not uncommon in these debates for Apologists attempting to defend the Bible to be (or claim to be) unaware of significant Bible passages, and to be enlightened by Non- or Ex-Christians. Example:

I don’t think Bible tells it is ok to beat slaves.

It does. And they can even beat their indentured servants too.

Luke 12:47-48 (OK to beat indentured servants)

Exodus 21:20-21 (Ok to beat slaves just as long as they don't die within a couple of days.

Is it rational for a person to attempt to defend the Bible when they demonstrate (or claim) to be unaware of significant, and often poignant, passages?

Does such ignorance or willful ignorance damage / destroy the credibility of the defense?

[Zzyzx]

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Exactly. The Bible says it is okay to beat slaves and non-slaves.

I don’t know any scripture in the Bible that says: “it is ok to beat people�.

What would it mean to you if a person said that there would be no punishment if you beat a slave (a slave is a person) and they did not die within two days? Would that indicate that the source had no objection to the beating if it did not result in death?

Does ‘had no objection to’ mean something very different than ‘it is okay with me’?

Using knowledge of the Bible, does it okay the beating of slaves (and non-slaves) or does it not?

I think beating is not okay in the Bible. And reason why I think so is that there are punishments for it. And as you point out, there is the commandment, love your neighbor

Punishment is NOT for beating, it is for DEATH of the beaten slave.

…How does beating slaves (or others) align with the Golden Rule or with 'Love thy neighbor as thyself'?

Do you want to be beaten?

Is beating a slave (or others) and expression of love?

I think “Love your neighbor as yourself� is the perfect law. And I think it would be against it to beat someone. All though, it may be that in some case beating could save person from greater harm, which is why I think it is not necessary always bad. However, it is difficult to know when it would really be beneficial truly.

My, what creative dodging. Let’s try again.

How does beating slaves (or others) align with the Golden Rule or with 'Love thy neighbor as thyself'?

Do you want to be beaten?

Is beating a slave (or others) and expression of love?

Maybe there is always a better way.

Perhaps if any ‘god’ had ‘inspired’ the Bible a better way would have been presented.

[1213]

…Are you saying its ok to beat up a servant just because he doesn't do what his master tells him to do?

If person does something evil, then I think it is not necessarily bad.

[1213]

…It's a pity that the god of the bible has never been able to come up with better ways. It's always the violent approach with that god. Order a death. Send a natural disaster. Order a beating.

I disagree. The Bible itself and its teachings of how people should live and love their neighbors is a nonviolent better way. Unfortunately it seems people just don’t like to live accordingly, atheists don’t even seem to comprehend the whole matter.

[1213]

…
What would it mean to you if a person said that there would be no punishment if you beat a slave (a slave is a person) and they did not die within two days? Would that indicate that the source had no objection to the beating if it did not result in death?

With that information it would be not possible to say has the person any objection. In the case of Bible, it is said love other as yourself I think that is objection.

Do you want to be beaten?

If I would otherwise do something incredibly stupid and harmful, then it could be acceptable.

Is beating a slave (or others) and expression of love?

Love is caring, if the beating is because you care and know it will be good for the other person, then it could be expression of love. However, I don’t know any case where it would really be so.

Perhaps if any ‘god’ had ‘inspired’ the Bible a better way would have been presented.

I think Bible and its teachings are the better way.

[Zzyzx]

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Do you want to be beaten?

If I would otherwise do something incredibly stupid and harmful, then it could be acceptable.

If someone here thinks you would do 'something incredibly stupid and harmful' in your posts, would it be acceptable for them to beat you?

[Willum]

I disagree. The Bible itself and its teachings of how people should live and love their neighbors is a nonviolent better way. Unfortunately it seems people just don’t like to live accordingly, atheists don’t even seem to comprehend the whole matter.

You are sooo right!
Whenever I want to know how to acquire and punish slaves, I reach for the Bible!
Whenever I want to know how to rape an unmarried woman, I reach for the Bible!
Whenever I want to know what conditions God condones genocide, I reach for the Bible!
Whenever I want to know how to kill adulterers, I reach for the Bible!

Yep, no better source for discovering how you should treat your neighbor, and mistreat everyone else, with a note for stoning your adulterous neighbors after raping their daughter!

[bjs]

[Replying to post 43 by 1213]


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[1213]

If someone here thinks you would do 'something incredibly stupid and harmful' in your posts, would it be acceptable for them to beat you?

If it truly would be only way to prevent it. However, we probably would have very different idea of what is stupid and harmful. And because I think many people would use this wrongly, I think it is better, if humans don’t do so in any case. Also, because there are the punishments, if you cause physical damage by doings so.

[1213]

…Yep, no better source for discovering how you should treat your neighbor, and mistreat everyone else, with a note for stoning your adulterous neighbors after raping their daughter!

No wonder why modern law is several books and even that is not enough. But if indeed you would be a judge set by God, then I think first thing you should remember is this:

Thus has Yahweh of Hosts spoken, saying, 'Execute true judgment, and show kindness and compassion every man to his brother.
Zechariah 7:9

[OnceConvinced]

…It's a pity that the god of the bible has never been able to come up with better ways. It's always the violent approach with that god. Order a death. Send a natural disaster. Order a beating.

I disagree. The Bible itself and its teachings of how people should live and love their neighbors is a nonviolent better way. Unfortunately it seems people just don’t like to live accordingly, atheists don’t even seem to comprehend the whole matter.

Looking at the bible can you see any instances where God dealt with sin and evil in a non violent way? And by God, I mean God himself, not Jesus.

Don't answer that here. I'll start another thread:
viewtopic.php?p=977845#977845