Do atheists not have beliefs?

[historia]

You don't know what I already believe (I don't have beliefs BTW)

This is an assertion that has been made by a few atheists on this forum.

Is it coherent for atheists to claim they don't have beliefs?

[AgnosticBoy]

You don't know what I already believe (I don't have beliefs BTW)

This is an assertion that has been made by a few atheists on this forum.
Is it coherent for atheists to claim they don't have beliefs?

I understand why a 'negative' atheist would claim this. It is one way to be objective or at least appear as such. This type of atheist is simply suspending judgement on God's existence until they have evidence.

But when I hear this claim from atheists, I am always on the look out for how that would play out when they interact or debate with Christians. If someone comes off as anti-Bible, anti-supernatural, and is using the same type of arguments that you'd expect a 'positive' atheists to use, then I find it hard to believe the atheist has no beliefs on God.

I personally identify as Agnostic without any atheist attachment. I would consider myself an open-minded skeptic. I accept some of the Christian and atheists points, but none of them I feel are strong enough to lead me to theism or positive atheism. This type of thinking and mindset would inevitably reflect in how I debate. It's hard to put in words but usually most could tell the difference between how an agnostic interacts/debates with Christians and how an atheist interacts. Maybe Bart Ehrman and Richard Carrier style is an apt comparison.

[Zzyzx]

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It is the policy of this Forum that each person is solely responsible for their own position -- and that others are not entitled to correct the position stated.

No one is authorized to tell anyone what they believe or do not believe -- or what they MUST believe or not believe.

[AgnosticBoy]

Cont'd from my last post..
Another sign of a negative atheists (atheists with no atheistic beliefs) might be that he is willing to call out positive atheists when or if they are wrong. I remember Professor Bart Ehrman going against an "internet atheist" during an interview.

YouTube.

[Mithrae]

In fact, this argument was over back in post #17 when Diagoras posted the following:

Indeed. Along with theory, science, proof, observation and evidence, theres quite a collection of words which have had their definitions stretched or blurred to suit the apologist.

Um, okay.

And you think you can unblur theistic vagueness by using words in non-standard and unexplained ways yourself?

That's pretty much the heart of the matter; at best it's a fight fire with fire war of words.

The important point to recognize of course is that only some critics and atheists engage in such sophistry, as do only some Christians and theists. When Christians do so they're often reciprocating/responding to the lower levels of criticism (eg. rhetoric that theism is on par with belief in Santa or ghosts and goblins) and when critics do so they likewise are reciprocating/responding to only the most mediocre stuff available.

Personally I don't see any value in such a race to the bottom; I'm much more likely to just ignore the absurdity of any hypothetical person who claims that "there is NO DIFFERENCE between faith-based theistic beliefs, and evidence-grounded scientific knowledge" than to take such claims seriously enough to start re-writing the dictionary!

[wiploc]

And your claim -- if I now understand it -- is not that you have no beliefs, but rather that you don't try to pass your beliefs off as knowledge. Do I have that right?

Why do I need to have beliefs of any kind?

If you don't believe you'll get paid for work, you'll quit working.

If you don't believe your house will be where you left it, you won't find your way home.

If you don't believe kindness is better than cruelty, you'll be unlovable and unloved.

If you don't belief food will fix your hunger, you'll die.

And so on.

Also what about knowledge?

What about it?

Is knowledge a belief?

No. But you believe what you know. If you know that 3 is bigger than 2, then you also believe it.

Can you show me a dictionary that defines knowledge as belief?

That would be weird. Are you saying that you don't know the difference?

I feel like I'm being baited, but I don't see the point of this line of questioning.

[wiploc]

Can we say that student knows something without believing it in this case?

No. If he doesn't believe something, he also doesn't know it.

In your example, the student knows the correct way to answer the questions on the test, but he doesn't know that those answers are correct in reality.

ETA:

I know that Christians believe Jesus is the son of Jehovah, but that doesn't mean that I know that Jesus really is the son of Jehovah.

[SallyF]

1.
accept that (something) is true, especially without proof.
"the superintendent believed Lancaster's story"

2.
hold (something) as an opinion; think.
"I believe we've already met"

https://www.google.com.au/search?sxsrf= ... A_uFkIBeqA



Do I know or believe the surgeon removed my tumor?


Do I know or believe Jesus cured my cancer?


(Interesting how Jesus never does anything for acne.)

[Zzyzx]

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If you don't believe you'll get paid for work, you'll quit working.

If you don't believe your house will be where you left it, you won't find your way home.

If you believe that the trash will be picked up on schedule that is the same as believing in 'God'. Belief is all the same thing. Right?

Apparently the trash pickup is more reliable than answers to prayers. At least, the trash pickup can be verified to have occurred.

[Danmark]

1.
accept that (something) is true, especially without proof.
"the superintendent believed Lancaster's story"

2.
hold (something) as an opinion; think.
"I believe we've already met"

https://www.google.com.au/search?sxsrf= ... A_uFkIBeqA



Do I know or believe the surgeon removed my tumor?


Do I know or believe Jesus cured my cancer?


(Interesting how Jesus never does anything for acne.)

We believe things to various degrees. We have a very strong belief the Earth will continue to rotate and the sun will appear to rise tomorrow. We believe we will wake in the morning, but that belief may be slightly less certain than the belief the sun will rise. The range of certainty of beliefs probably ranges from 99.9 percent down to 1 percent. Or if you will, perhaps it stops being a belief when it drops below 50%.
You can believe in a range of 50% to 80% you will find an item on the menu delicious. That belief will likely not be based on religion and it may turn out justified or not. But it is a 'belief.'

But to believe that 'beliefs' only apply to religious matters is to claim an esoteric definition shared by few. You can of course fall into the same trap Lewis Carrol parodied in his satirical children's book. You can claim a word means the opposite of it's dictionary definitions, but that bodes poorly for your success in communicating effectively.

[wiploc]

If you believe that the trash will be picked up on schedule that is the same as believing in 'God'. Belief is all the same thing. Right?

Some beliefs are warranted, others not. Some are stupid, others not.

They're still all beliefs.