Lack of knowledge of the Bible?

[Zzyzx]

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Lack of knowledge of the Bible?

It is not uncommon in these debates for Apologists attempting to defend the Bible to be (or claim to be) unaware of significant Bible passages, and to be enlightened by Non- or Ex-Christians. Example:

I dont think Bible tells it is ok to beat slaves.

It does. And they can even beat their indentured servants too.

Luke 12:47-48 (OK to beat indentured servants)

Exodus 21:20-21 (Ok to beat slaves just as long as they don't die within a couple of days.

Is it rational for a person to attempt to defend the Bible when they demonstrate (or claim) to be unaware of significant, and often poignant, passages?

Does such ignorance or willful ignorance damage / destroy the credibility of the defense?

[OnceConvinced]

I disagree. The Bible itself and its teachings of how people should live and love their neighbors is a nonviolent better way. Unfortunately it seems people just dont like to live accordingly, atheists dont even seem to comprehend the whole matter.

You are sooo right!
Whenever I want to know how to acquire and punish slaves, I reach for the Bible!
Whenever I want to know how to rape an unmarried woman, I reach for the Bible!
Whenever I want to know what conditions God condones genocide, I reach for the Bible!
Whenever I want to know how to kill adulterers, I reach for the Bible!

Yep, no better source for discovering how you should treat your neighbor, and mistreat everyone else, with a note for stoning your adulterous neighbors after raping their daughter!

And don't forget about all these "non-violent" ways of dealing with people. Ways to love your neighbour as yourself. Ways to apply the golden rule:

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests (Deuteronomy 17:12)
Kill Witches (Exodus 22:17)
Kill Homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13)
Kill Fortunetellers (Leviticus 20:27)
Death for Hitting parents (Exodus 21:15)
Death for Cursing Parents (Proverbs 20:20, (Leviticus 20:9)
Death for Adultery (Leviticus 20:10)
Death for Fornication (Leviticus 21:9)
Death to Followers of Other Religions (Exodus 22:19, Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
Kill Nonbelievers (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
Kill False Prophets (Zechariah 13:3, Deuteronomy 13:1-5)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21) " which would include the majority of Christian women these days.
Death for Blasphemy (Leviticus 24:10-16)
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath' (Exodus 31:12-15)
Kill Sons of Sinners (Isaiah 14:21)

[Zzyzx]

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If someone here thinks you would do 'something incredibly stupid and harmful' in your posts, would it be acceptable for them to beat you?

If it truly would be only way to prevent it. However, we probably would have very different idea of what is stupid and harmful.

Your idea of what is stupid and harmful doesnt count because you are the one to be beaten.

And because I think many people would use this wrongly, I think it is better, if humans dont do so in any case.

Perhaps God should have been wise enough to have Bible writers say that humans must refrain from beating others (and from owning others).

Also, because there are the punishments, if you cause physical damage by doings so.

What punishments, exactly, are specified in scripture for doing physical damage if it does not result in death?

Would an honest answer be NONE?

[Zzyzx]

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Yep, no better source for discovering how you should treat your neighbor, and mistreat everyone else, with a note for stoning your adulterous neighbors after raping their daughter!

No wonder why modern law is several books and even that is not enough. But if indeed you would be a judge set by God, then I think first thing you should remember is this:

Thus has Yahweh of Hosts spoken, saying, 'Execute true judgment, and show kindness and compassion every man to his brother.
Zechariah 7:9

Does this include slaves, wives, disobedient children, citizens of nations opposed to Israelis?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 49 by 1213]

Weird, so much for judge not lest ye be judged...
Err.. you are talking about 'in general.' Everyone ELSE is talking about laws and punishment.
Get it?
No one treats rapists like their brothers, as you are trying to suggest.

[1213]

What punishments, exactly, are specified in scripture for doing physical damage if it does not result in death?...

I thought you have read the Bible. Here are some of the rules:

"If men fight and hurt a pregnant woman so that she gives birth prematurely, and yet no harm follows, he shall be surely fined as much as the woman's husband demands and the judges allow. But if any harm follows, then you must take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, and bruise for bruise. "If a man strikes his servant's eye, or his maid's eye, and destroys it, he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. If he strikes out his man-servant's tooth, or his maid-servant's tooth, he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.
Ex. 21:22-27

If anyone injures his neighbor; as he has done, so shall it be done to him: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; as he has injured someone, so shall it be done to him.
Lev. 24:19-20

[Difflugia]

What punishments, exactly, are specified in scripture for doing physical damage if it does not result in death?...

I thought you have read the Bible. Here are some of the rules:

"If men fight and hurt a pregnant woman so that she gives birth prematurely, and yet no harm follows, he shall be surely fined as much as the woman's husband demands and the judges allow. But if any harm follows, then you must take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, and bruise for bruise. "If a man strikes his servant's eye, or his maid's eye, and destroys it, he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. If he strikes out his man-servant's tooth, or his maid-servant's tooth, he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.
Ex. 21:22-27

If anyone injures his neighbor; as he has done, so shall it be done to him: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; as he has injured someone, so shall it be done to him.
Lev. 24:19-20

If men are fighting and a wife tries to rescue her husband by grabbing the other guy's junk, then cut off her hand. Show no mercy.
Deuteronomy 25:11

[sorrento]

[Replying to post 55 by 1213]

You quoted Lev. "If anyone injures his neighbor; as he has done, so shall it be done to him: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; as he has injured someone, so shall it be done to him.
Lev. 24:19-20"

Your god seems to have forgotten what he "inspired" people to write as he seems to have overlooked the above when he instructed that a slave owner who beats a slave shall receive no punishment so long as the slave he beats dies as a result of the beating a few days later.
Seems like a contradiction to me, but then, the bible doesn't contain any contradictions. Isn't that right 1213?

[1213]

Your god seems to have forgotten what he "inspired" people to write as he seems to have overlooked the above when he instructed that a slave owner who beats a slave shall receive no punishment so long as the slave he beats dies as a result of the beating a few days later.
Seems like a contradiction to me, but then, the bible doesn't contain any contradictions. Isn't that right 1213?

Again, no punishment, if there is no permanent harm done. If person dies, or there is permanent harm, like losing a tooth, then the situation is different, according to the Old Testament law.

"If men quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone, or with his fist, and he doesn't die, but is confined to bed; if he rises again and walks around with his staff, then he who struck him shall be cleared: only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall provide for his healing until he is thoroughly healed. "If a man strikes his servant or his maid with a rod, and he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he gets up after a day or two, he shall not be punished, for he is his property.
Exodus 21:18-21

So, yes, Bible doesnt contain any contradictions. The contradictions that I know are in interpretations or in that people have cherry picked lines for their own propaganda use.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 58 by 1213]

You seem to NOT be distinguishing between criminals and neighbors again. Quoting out of context, like the Devil is reputed to do.
Ive mentioned this before, unless can show how neighbors should be treated like criminals or contrary-wise.
Either way, you continue to demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the Bible. You believe very vehemently and make questionable statements, such as women like rape, based on a book you have demonstrated a poor knowledge of.

[sorrento]

[Replying to post 58 by 1213]

The verses you quote in Lev and Exodus contradict one another. In Lev it states that an injury inflicted on someone shall be suffered by the person causing the injury.
In Exodus, it states that no punishment shall apply if the injuries are not permanent, so that is different from what it says in Lev.
Death as a result of injuries received is as permanent as it gets, yet the perpetrator can escape punishment according to Exodus if the slave lives for a few days. Whether the slave dies immediately after the beating or a few days later the result in both cases is permanent. Death. To make things worse the unfortunate slave in the latter case has his death dismissed as being nothing more than a financial loss to the slaver.
Rules laid down by an all-loving and benevolent god. Yeah, right!