Are atheists afraid of God?

[Paul of Tarsus]

In response to Stephen Hawking's quip, "Religion is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark," apologist John Lennox said, "And atheism is a fairy story for those afraid of the light."

Do atheists fear that light aka God? I would answer no assuming I knew atheists to be completely sensible and rational in their rejection of theism, but they very often aren't sensible and rational in their unbelief. In this forum, for example, an atheist said he lost his belief in God when he realized that there are different religions. When I tried to explain to him that those conflicting faiths can be explained as some of them getting a real God wrong, well, it did me no good! It's simply illogical to conclude that God doesn't exist because some people disagree about him. His atheism is obviously based on faulty logic. What's odd about these cases involving atheists using poor reasoning to reject God is that those atheists seem quite reasonable otherwise. My guess is that they fear God and wish that he doesn't exist. Atheism is for them a sanctuary from theism and a hope that reality harbors no scary God.

[brunumb]

We then have evidence that atheism does not rule out negative feelings toward God.

As Weinberg made clear, those feelings relate to a fictional character. We all respond to fictional character in one way or another, but that doesn't mean we therefore believe in them as real beings. I think the Christian God is a thoroughly detestable character. I don't believe it exists and I don't fear it in any way. Why do some Christians insist on projecting their own beliefs and fears onto non-believers? Is the shrinking pond of Christianity creating a sense of desperation to the extent that even non-believers must be used to prop up the fold?

[blackstart]

...I find it hard to understand why I am supposed to be afraid of a God which a) I have no belief in, and b) plays no significant part in my life(apart from cultural influences, that is). I can only state that I don't have any feelings of fear at all as regards God. I can't see why I should.

I suppose where I differ with a lot of the atheists on this thread is regarding the relationship between an absence of belief in God and fear of God. You, like most of the other atheists on this board, think that the two are mutually exclusive. Since you don't believe in God, then you conclude you cannot fear God. I'm not so sure that's true. I think some atheists can be afraid of God. Psychologists know that the human psyche can harbor conflicting thoughts and feelings, so a person can fear a God she doesn't believe in.

Here's a quotation from Steven Weinberg, an atheist who avows that he doesn't like God:

Maybe at the very bottom of it... I really don't like God. You know, it's silly to say I don't like God because I don't believe in God, but in the same sense that I don't like Iago, or the Reverend Slope or any of the other villains of literature, the god of traditional Judaism and Christianity and Islam seems to me a terrible character. He's a god who will... who obsessed the degree to which people worship him and anxious to punish with the most awful torments those who don't worship him in the right way. Now I realise that many people don't believe in that any more who call themselves Muslims or Jews or Christians, but that is the traditional God and he's a terrible character. I don't like him.

We then have evidence that atheism does not rule out negative feelings toward God.

Firstly I am simply speaking for myself, and not other atheists(who are well able to speak for themselves), Of course it is quite possible that someone may feel fear when considering the idea of God for a variety of reasons. (e.g. they may link the idea of God to a harsh Christian upbringing which they have left behind but which still leaves its emotional scars upon them). So, you see, your idea that I think that the two are mutually exclusive is a false presumption on your part.

Where did you get the idea that I conclude that I 'cannot' fear God from? It certainly wasn't from me as I simply stated that I 'don't' fear God, which is not the same thing at all. In my case I suggested two reasons a) non belief in said God b) the lack of significance of said God to me(a point which you completely ignored by the way in your reply). In my case I hold no fear of God(in fact, any gods) and can only put it down to those two reasons. I don't much like the portayal of God in the Bible(especially, but not exclusively, in the OT) but I put that down to human beings, so dislike of this God's potrayal doesn't turn into fear at all.

[Dimmesdale]

We have to consider how people arrive at their conclusions, how "close" they are to the God conclusion specifically. Some may be very, very far away. They have no "what ifs" floating about in their heads -- at least not yet. Others border very close to theism. The latter are the ones I think who are more insecure, because their minds very closely contact the implications that may be revealed should theism prove true.

It comes down to not just the bare existence of God, but to all the things that MAY be implied, IF theism should be true. Post mortem justice, and the like. Or whether scientific findings are really accurate representations of reality. Or perhaps one must change his entire way of life? It doesn't help if one is personally invested in a conclusion opposite to these things.

So for those reasons I am convinced some nonbelievers are at least paranoid that there could be a God. Atheism after all does not ipso facto yield a rock solid conclusion.

[benchwarmer]

So for those reasons I am convinced some nonbelievers are at least paranoid that there could be a God. Atheism after all does not ipso facto yield a rock solid conclusion.

As an atheist, I can only say that I'm not one of these potentially paranoid people. After all, there may very well be some kind of deity or deities that we are currently unaware of. I just don't happen to believe in any of the characters presented so far by various theists due to complete lack of verifiable evidence. It doesn't help that some of these gods put forth are completely ludicrous and it's hard for me to comprehend how a god could be so incompetent, silly, etc as presented by some of the stories supposedly inspired to portray them.

The thing that really drives me a bit crazy about the OP question is: Which God? After all, there are so many to choose from. One could easily reword the OP to be "Are Christians afraid of Zeus?". It would be equally meaningless.

I would like to add something that may be what the OP is really asking: Would I be afraid if the god portrayed in the Bible was real? The answer would be yes. In fact the Bible itself tells us to be afraid, so that only makes sense:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

14 “‘Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block in front of the blind, but fear your God. I am the Lord.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

13 Fear the Lord your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name.

This really proves nothing though. I would also be afraid if Thanos from the Marvel comics was real.

[Dimmesdale]

So for those reasons I am convinced some nonbelievers are at least paranoid that there could be a God. Atheism after all does not ipso facto yield a rock solid conclusion.

As an atheist, I can only say that I'm not one of these potentially paranoid people.

Well, I suppose that indicates at least you are not a control freak.

After all, there may very well be some kind of deity or deities that we are currently unaware of. I just don't happen to believe in any of the characters presented so far by various theists due to complete lack of verifiable evidence. It doesn't help that some of these gods put forth are completely ludicrous and it's hard for me to comprehend how a god could be so incompetent, silly, etc as presented by some of the stories supposedly inspired to portray them.

The thing that really drives me a bit crazy about the OP question is: Which God? After all, there are so many to choose from. One could easily reword the OP to be "Are Christians afraid of Zeus?". It would be equally meaningless.

I believe a good response to this would be: why would all these other millions of Gods have so little preaching capital? If some other God(s) existed, I would assume they would have liked to make themselves known. Nowadays, however, there are only a handful of major religions.

I give the Abrahamic gods credit for at least outlasting most of the other religious narratives. Such staying power in my view indicates something compelling.

I would like to add something that may be what the OP is really asking: Would I be afraid if the god portrayed in the Bible was real? The answer would be yes. In fact the Bible itself tells us to be afraid, so that only makes sense:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

14 “‘Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block in front of the blind, but fear your God. I am the Lord.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

13 Fear the Lord your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name.

This really proves nothing though. I would also be afraid if Thanos from the Marvel comics was real.

Thanos however, like I pointed out above, does not have a long record of making himself known like the Abrahamic deities. This indicates that, if he does exist, he doesn't like the limelight. But knowing most God-like villains, they are probably narcissistic, and so their existence not being published, I have to assume they do not exist.

The exact same thing can't be said for Jehovah. He at least, seems to want to announce his existence quite loudly, albeit through secondary causes.

[benchwarmer]

I believe a good response to this would be: why would all these other millions of Gods have so little preaching capital? If some other God(s) existed, I would assume they would have liked to make themselves known. Nowadays, however, there are only a handful of major religions.

I give the Abrahamic gods credit for at least outlasting most of the other religious narratives. Such staying power in my view indicates something compelling.

Seriously? Argumentum ad populum? One could also easily say that if any one of these gods was actually real and wanted everyone to be unconfused about who is real and who isn't, it would be a simple matter to clear things up.

The fact that there are so many splinter groups within the Abrahamic religions alone is a huge red flag. If they can't even agree among themselves which version of their god is correct, that makes a very compelling argument to me that likely none are.

Just because a story is popular and has a long tradition does not make it any more true. That just means that Santa Claus will eventually become compelling.

[Dimmesdale]

Seriously? Argumentum ad populum? One could also easily say that if any one of these gods was actually real and wanted everyone to be unconfused about who is real and who isn't, it would be a simple matter to clear things up.

I don't buy that just any deity can be potentially real. A deity generally includes worshippers. Otherwise, what is the point of being a deity? One implies the other, in my view. A totally unknown deity, is no deity worth any salt. At best, it shows that deity is largely indifferent to human concern.

Of course, technically speaking there could be that "jujubee" or whatever on the bottom of the sea, like Dawkins said, but that isn't very compelling. I see no reason to take that sort of being seriously even if he does happen to exist.

The fact that there are so many splinter groups within the Abrahamic religions alone is a huge red flag. If they can't even agree among themselves which version of their god is correct, that makes a very compelling argument to me that likely none are.

Or it could just mean that humans are limited in their ability to process the vast scope of theological truth. We may look at differences only to overlook the great amount of overlap that even warring sects may agree on.

Just because a story is popular and has a long tradition does not make it any more true. That just means that Santa Claus will eventually become compelling.

Santa Claus has never, to my mind, come to the level of a religion, so I disagree with you. If I ever came across actual Santa Claus worshippers, I would be intrigued.

[Paul of Tarsus]

Firstly I am simply speaking for myself, and not other atheists(who are well able to speak for themselves), Of course it is quite possible that someone may feel fear when considering the idea of God for a variety of reasons. (e.g. they may link the idea of God to a harsh Christian upbringing which they have left behind but which still leaves its emotional scars upon them). So, you see, your idea that I think that the two are mutually exclusive is a false presumption on your part.

Where did you get the idea that I conclude that I 'cannot' fear God from? It certainly wasn't from me as I simply stated that I 'don't' fear God, which is not the same thing at all. In my case I suggested two reasons a) non belief in said God b) the lack of significance of said God to me(a point which you completely ignored by the way in your reply). In my case I hold no fear of God(in fact, any gods) and can only put it down to those two reasons. I don't much like the portayal of God in the Bible(especially, but not exclusively, in the OT) but I put that down to human beings, so dislike of this God's potrayal doesn't turn into fear at all.

Back on post 47 you stated:

...I find it hard to understand why I am supposed to be afraid of a God which a) I have no belief in, and b) plays no significant part in my life(apart from cultural influences, that is). I can only state that I don't have any feelings of fear at all as regards God. I can't see why I should.

That sure looks to me like you're saying you can't fear God. Are you sure you're not going back on what you said now that I've demonstrated that it's wrong?

[Paul of Tarsus]

The only people who truly fear god are those who believe in its existence.

It's entirely possible for a person to have two conflicting beliefs. I've already argued that that is the case. So atheists can believe in God in much the same way that Christians can doubt that God exists.

We then have evidence that atheism does not rule out negative feelings toward God.

As Weinberg made clear, those feelings relate to a fictional character. We all respond to fictional character in one way or another, but that doesn't mean we therefore believe in them as real beings. I think the Christian God is a thoroughly detestable character. I don't believe it exists and I don't fear it in any way. Why do some Christians insist on projecting their own beliefs and fears onto non-believers? Is the shrinking pond of Christianity creating a sense of desperation to the extent that even non-believers must be used to prop up the fold?

But Weinberg also made clear that his dislike for God is "silly." So he's avowing that he's not thinking rationally. It seems strange to me for him to describe his negative feelings toward God that way. After all, it's not silly to despise a figure that doesn't exist as long as you recognize that the figure doesn't exist. If you're not sure the figure exists, on the other hand, then we enter some gray cognitive areas regarding feelings toward that figure. I just wonder if maybe Weinberg does have some theistic belief that he struggles with as it conflicts with his atheism.

[brunumb]

I don't buy that just any deity can be potentially real. A deity generally includes worshippers. Otherwise, what is the point of being a deity? One implies the other, in my view. A totally unknown deity, is no deity worth any salt.

Worship has to be one of the most useless and ridiculous activities invented by humans. Early people no doubt did it out of fear of vengeful deities or to appeal to the gods for favours. That seems to be the case even today. Any deity that actually requires worship isn't worthy of it anyway.

As for the prevailing gods that are in favour today, that is all about what humans have managed to achieve. They are a testament to the insidious ways that religions propagate themselves in society. No gods have demonstrated any of their alleged attributes let alone their existence. Everything is done through alleged human intermediaries and the gods themselves are not even necessary.