Born from above!

[Bobcat]

Jesus says you must be born from above.

Scripture says he who is born from above is from heaven.

Since man does not really know where heaven is how can he know who comes from heaven or who is from above?

John 3:3
Jesus answered him, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."

John 3:7
7 Do not be astonished that I said to you, "You must be born from above”.


John 3:31
31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks about earthly things. The one who comes from heaven is above all.

So, are you born from above? Are you from heaven?

[William]

Jesus says you must be born from above.

Scripture says he who is born from above is from heaven.

Since man does not really know where heaven is how can he know who comes from heaven or who is from above?

John 3:3
Jesus answered him, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."

John 3:7
7 Do not be astonished that I said to you, "You must be born from above”.

This is one reason why I find that the JWs are canonically correct about only a few people actually reaching Heaven itself. It might even be less than that. It might even be none.

Scripturally Heaven is where God is, and it's not normal for regular people to go there. Jesus talks about everyone being raised from the dead but that's different.

This "going to Heaven" thing seems to have quietly segued itself into Christian lore, a lot like how some people think angels are made out of dead humans.

The concept can be sourced in more ancient times, before writing or even complex language.

Heaven was an alternate place which a Human Consciousness was able to experience as a real thing. Indeed, this happens as it has always happened - the phenomena has not disappeared.

The explaining of such, is where the mythology came into existence...and even with today's complex language, "explaining" it, is very hard to do, without superimposing understandable things from this reality as a - fairly poor - means of describing the indescribable.

Thus...SRIBES.

[brunumb]

But you said: “Seek and you shall find, ask and you’ll receive, knock and the door will open for whoever seeks finds, whoever asks receives, whoever knocks enters”, and that is patently not true. Your response does nothing to address that falsehood.

Well the only reason it is false is because those who seek do not seek the way God wants.

Straight out of "The Giant Omnibus of Christian Loopholes", if it didn't work, you did it wrong and it's your fault.

Everyone can find God and His righteousness by following those who He talked to, the prophets. Jesus spoke highly of the prophets for a reason. He quoted scripture from the prophets frequently. In truth Jesus was a prophet also. The correct way to seek, to ask and to knock is as a prophet. Spread scripture. There, now I told you plainly. You have no excuse. Study scripture and serve God by spreading His message from the prophets.

Now let's change the rules. Asking is no longer asking. Knocking is no longer knocking. Seeking is no longer seeking. You've got to pretend that you have found, then preach and you will find. If we can't brainwash you then you have to brainwash yourself. If that doesn't work, always remember that it's your fault that it didn't work. The ultimate loophole.

[1213]

... which should still apply metaphorically to all Christians...

Why should it be taken metaphorically? Who made you the authority to tell what Christians should do?

[TRANSPONDER]

... which should still apply metaphorically to all Christians...

Why should it be taken metaphorically? Who made you the authority to tell what Christians should do?

Because you said yourself it can't be done actually as Jesus is not on earth anymore. So it has to be metaphorical, unless you say that this teaching or instruction doesn't apply now, in which case, what teaching or instruction does, since Jesus is no longer on earth? This hole you dig gets deeper.

[Bobcat]

But you said: “Seek and you shall find, ask and you’ll receive, knock and the door will open for whoever seeks finds, whoever asks receives, whoever knocks enters”, and that is patently not true. Your response does nothing to address that falsehood.

Well the only reason it is false is because those who seek do not seek the way God wants.

Straight out of "The Giant Omnibus of Christian Loopholes", if it didn't work, you did it wrong and it's your fault.

Everyone can find God and His righteousness by following those who He talked to, the prophets. Jesus spoke highly of the prophets for a reason. He quoted scripture from the prophets frequently. In truth Jesus was a prophet also. The correct way to seek, to ask and to knock is as a prophet. Spread scripture. There, now I told you plainly. You have no excuse. Study scripture and serve God by spreading His message from the prophets.

Now let's change the rules. Asking is no longer asking. Knocking is no longer knocking. Seeking is no longer seeking. You've got to pretend that you have found, then preach and you will find. If we can't brainwash you then you have to brainwash yourself. If that doesn't work, always remember that it's your fault that it didn't work. The ultimate loophole.

God’s ways are not man’s ways. Why He does it this way I don’t understand. I do know how to find Him because I’ve done it. I stumbled upon it as I searched scripture years ago.

The LORD says this;

“Your ways are not my ways nor are your thoughts my thoughts. As high as the heavens are above the earth that’s how high my ways are above your ways and my thoughts above your thoughts.”

[JoeyKnothead]

God’s ways are not man’s ways. Why He does it this way I don’t understand. I do know how to find Him because I’ve done it. I stumbled upon it as I searched scripture years ago.

The LORD says this;

“Your ways are not my ways nor are your thoughts my thoughts. As high as the heavens are above the earth that’s how high my ways are above your ways and my thoughts above your thoughts.”

You've done nothing but present unconfirmable (and unsupported) claims.

You have nothing but your preaching by which we may consider your reliability as a teller of truth. It doesn't bode well that all you can do is quote bible claims in support of Bible claims.

[Bobcat]

God’s ways are not man’s ways. Why He does it this way I don’t understand. I do know how to find Him because I’ve done it. I stumbled upon it as I searched scripture years ago.

The LORD says this;

“Your ways are not my ways nor are your thoughts my thoughts. As high as the heavens are above the earth that’s how high my ways are above your ways and my thoughts above your thoughts.”

You've done nothing but present unconfirmable (and unsupported) claims.

You have nothing but your preaching by which we may consider your reliability as a teller of truth. It doesn't bode well that all you can do is quote bible claims in support of Bible claims.

Follow my lead and you will see. That is the proof.

“If you continue in my word you’re truly my disciple then you’ll know the truth and the truth will set you free.”

[William]

[Replying to Bobcat in post #57]

Follow my lead and you will see. That is the proof.

“If you continue in my word you’re truly my disciple then you’ll know the truth and the truth will set you free.”

What is this truth you know - assuming you even are truly are a disciple?
And

What has this truth set you free from?

[JoeyKnothead]

Follow my lead and you will see. That is the proof.

I wouldn't trust you to lead me if I up and went blind.

“If you continue in my word you’re truly my disciple then you’ll know the truth and the truth will set you free.”

The liar lies and the preacher preaches.

When you can put truth to your claims, just go right on ahead.

[TRANSPONDER]

God’s ways are not man’s ways. Why He does it this way I don’t understand. I do know how to find Him because I’ve done it. I stumbled upon it as I searched scripture years ago.

The LORD says this;

“Your ways are not my ways nor are your thoughts my thoughts. As high as the heavens are above the earth that’s how high my ways are above your ways and my thoughts above your thoughts.”

You've done nothing but present unconfirmable (and unsupported) claims.

You have nothing but your preaching by which we may consider your reliability as a teller of truth. It doesn't bode well that all you can do is quote bible claims in support of Bible claims.

Follow my lead and you will see. That is the proof.

“If you continue in my word you’re truly my disciple then you’ll know the truth and the truth will set you free.”

Don't get the idea that we don't understand, we do. We know how compelling it is that the conviction comes through Faith that God is speaking to them and the truth is to be found my matching personal opinions to Bibletext. But you have to understand that many of us have been there and grew out of it. Saying that we should do what you are doing or have done is not going to convince any of us who know that people in other religions are as convinced of their god as you are of yours.

The Op is about being born from above,so of course the thread discusses it, but the Forum is about debate, and the place the debate gets to is that swearing that we only have to do as you urge us to find God is simply a waste of effort because all reason says otherwise.