Jesus Versus Geology

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unknown soldier
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Jesus Versus Geology

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Post by unknown soldier »

How can Jesus be divine if he can't get his facts straight? He evidently knew less than many of us today know. For example, Matthew 24:37-39 (NRSV) tells us:
For as the days of Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered the ark, and they knew nothing until the flood came and swept them all away, so too will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Sorry, Mr. Jesus, but we have no evidence that the Noachian flood in Genesis ever happened. Today geologists know better than to believe such fables. You are ignorant of that fact. How can you know how to grant people eternal life when you don't know the basics of the world you presumably created?

Anyway, while I wait for the apologists here to try to slip out of this sticky wicket, let me offer some lubricant of my own to help them. First, we can always interpret figuratively what Jesus said about the flood. A literal interpretation will result in seeing an error in the Bible, and to avoid that unacceptable conclusion we can say that Noah and the flood Jesus spoke of are metaphors.

Another way out is to insist that Jesus was right and that there was a historical Noah and a worldwide flood. Apologists can get busy writing books about how wrong geologists are.

Finally, we might even admit that Jesus was wrong, but he had good reason to be wrong. When he came down to the earth from heaven, he had to leave behind some of that omniscience. God couldn't manage to stuff all the knowledge of the cosmos into that little human head! Jesus could manage to save the world without knowing his geology, so such knowledge was dispensed with as unimportant for the duration of his time on earth. Not to worry, though, because Jesus remembered all he forgot on earth when he got back to heaven.

Obviously, most people won't buy these arguments, but these apologetics should be helpful in keeping the faithful assured that Jesus, as God on earth, fulfilled his mission perfectly!

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Difflugia
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Re: Jesus Versus Geology

Post #61

Post by Difflugia »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:03 pmSo what are you trying to say? That there is no such thing as a magnetic quick reversal?
No. I'm saying that the pattern of reversals embedded in the sea floor occured over the 200 million years or so that the tectonic plates took to separate to their present positions. Even if "quick" reversals happened the way Answers in Genesis says they could, that wouldn't change the overall pattern of the reversals or the dating of the rock in which that pattern is embedded.

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Re: Jesus Versus Geology

Post #62

Post by bluegreenearth »

[Replying to EarthScienceguy in post #61]
Proper scientific investigations use methods that enable people to distinguish imaginary things from real things and mitigate for confirmation bias by attempting to disprove proposed hypotheses. This is accomplished by using the imagined hypotheses to make novel testable predictions. Then, when the novel testable predictions are observed to be correct, scientists can reasonably infer that these falsifiable hypotheses are describing things that actually occur in reality and aren't just referring to things that only exists in their imaginations. Otherwise, if the novel testable predictions made by these hypotheses are observed to be incorrect, then scientists can infer that the proposed explanations could have only been describing imaginary things.

For example, people can propose a hypothesis that imagines a racoon was responsible for knocking over the garbage can in the alleyway. Did a racoon actually knock over the garbage can or is this racoon only imaginary? To find out, they could make a novel testable prediction that recorded video from the closed-circuit television camera overlooking the alleyway will contain footage of a racoon knocking over the garbage can last night. If these people review the video footage to find their prediction was correct, then they can infer that the racoon hypothesis corresponds to reality and wasn't just describing an imaginary racoon. However, if the video footage reveals a cat knocking over the garbage can, then these people can infer from their failed prediction that the hypothesized racoon was only imaginary.

Things become a bit more complicated if the proposed hypothesis is unfalsifiable. For instance, people could hypothesize that an invisible demon knocked over the garbage can last night. Did an invisible demon actually knock over the garbage can or is this invisible demon only imaginary? To try and find out, they could attempt to make the prediction that recorded video from the closed-circuit television camera will feature the garbage can being knocked over by an invisible demon. However, how could they rule-out the possibility that a strong gust of wind was responsible for knocking over the garbage can? Both the demon and a strong gust of wind are proposed invisible forces with the capability of knocking over the garbage can. The video evidence could potentially support both hypotheses because a strong gust of wind would be indistinguishable from an invisible demon in its effect on the garbage can.

So, which hypothesis is more reasonable to believe? Well, the strong wind hypothesis is at least falsifiable because it makes a novel testable prediction that the garbage can will be knocked over when placed in a wind tunnel simulating the wind gust speeds recorded in the meteorological data from last night. If the experiment confirms the accuracy of their prediction, would this evidence conclusively prove a strong gust of wind was responsible for knocking over the particular garbage can in the alleyway last night and rule-out the invisible demon hypothesis? No, it is still logically possible for an invisible demon to have knocked over the garbage can before a strong gust of wind could do it. However, it is more reasonable to accept the strong gust of wind hypothesis as the primary candidate explanation because it made a novel testable prediction that was subsequently demonstrated to be accurate.

On the other hand, if the garbage can remained upright in the wind tunnel experiment, the prediction made by the hypothesis will have failed and ruled-out a strong gust of wind as a candidate explanation. Would that mean the invisible demon hypothesis becomes the most reasonable explanation? Not exactly. How could they rule-out the possibility that a mischievous extra-terrestrial alien in a spaceship hovering in the sky above the alleyway used an invisible force field to knock over the garbage can? An extra-terrestrial invisible force field would be indistinguishable from an invisible demon in its proposed effects on the garbage can. In fact, how could they rule-out any of a potential infinite number of other invisible supernatural explanations or any yet to be discovered natural explanations? Even if they could rule-out the extra-terrestrial hypothesis and other proposed explanations, how could they determine if the invisible demon claim is describing something that exists in reality or is strictly imaginary?

The invisible demon hypothesis will still have to make a novel testable prediction such that a failed prediction would rule it out as a candidate explanation and a confirmed prediction would not have already been achieved by another hypothesis. If the invisible demon hypothesis makes a prediction that has already been successfully made by another hypothesis, then it wouldn't be making a novel prediction. Otherwise, it will be impossible to infer that the invisible demon explanation imagined by the hypothesis actually occurs in reality because it doesn't rule-out the competing explanation. For instance, if the hypothesis predicts the sun will rise in the east tomorrow morning because it imagines invisible demons are pushing the Earth around its axis, then observing the sun rising in the east the next morning would not demonstrate that it is more reasonable to infer the existence of invisible demons than to infer the existence of the physical forces hypothesized by Newtonian Physics. Instead, the invisible demon explanation would be a post-hoc rationalization designed to reinforce the a-priori conclusion that invisible demons actually exist and aren't just imaginary. Conversely, if the hypothesis predicts the sun will rise in the west tomorrow morning because invisible demons are expected to reverse the rotation of the planet, then observing the sun rising in the west tomorrow morning would not only falsify the hypotheses of Newtonian Physics but demonstrate that the imagined invisible demon explanation is describing something which can be reasonably inferred to exist in reality.

Do creationist hypotheses satisfy the criteria described above for them to be considered the most reasonable explanations or are they post-hoc rationalizations designed to reinforce their a-priori conclusion that creationism is true?

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