What is your tablet for discrediting the Bible?

[sawthelight]

The Bible should stand alone as truthful without any error to be deemed as the true word of God. However, what happens when just one error in the Bible is found? Does it take just one error or is more of them required to discredit the Bible? How about having 8 solid errors to rock your faith?

One error may seem inconsequential but it still would deem God in error and the Bible as fallible and finite. But to add insult to injury when 8 blatant errors show up, it is safe to discard the Bible as nothing more than the sole concocting of human beings.

What is your tablet of Biblical errors that you find contradictory and have caused you to dismiss the Bible as a fallacy? What debates did you have that included these tablets of errors you had with Christian theists that left you disenchanted or in utter disappointment?



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Here is my list of debates with theists that came to an unsatisfactory conclusion:

1) The marriage parable [Matthew 22:30 VS. Revelation 21:9, Ephesians 5:25-27].
Jesus says no marriage will occur in heaven yet the Lamb (a.k.a Jesus) is standing with his bride in heaven after the Day of Judgement. No marriage is supposed to occur in heaven.

2) The mustard seed parable [Matthew 13:31-32].
Jesus claims as a fact that the Mustard seed is the smallest of all seeds in the Bible. Yet we know the Orchid seed is smaller than the Mustard seed. Jesus failed to be correct.

3) Faith VS. Deeds [Romans 2:6-10, Galatians 2:15-16 VS. James 2:14-24].
The Bible contradicts when Paul says ONLY FAITH allows a believer into heaven when James says that faith AND WORKS together earns salvation. Both contradict.

4) The Law is to be upheld. The Law is abolished [Matthew 5:17 VS. Ephesian 2:15].
Jesus came NOT TO abolish the Law but to uphold it. Paul says that the Law HAS BEEN ABOLISHED. Two opposing doctrines.

5) The Trinity is polytheism rather than monotheism [1 John 5:7-8 VS. John 14:28].
Somehow the Trinity is supposed to mean that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all equal as one. Yet Jesus says "the Father is greater than I". Indication of unequal standings.

6) God is against God [Luke 4:5-7 & Revelations 11:16-18].
God gives away all authority on earth to Satan his enemy. He is also the suspect who killed his angels for destroying earth. A house divided against itself will not stand.

7) Children punished for sin of parents VS. The children no longer punished for parent's sin [Deuteronomy 5:9 VS. Ezekiel 18:1-30].
Shows that God has a changing nature.

8) God has a supposed unchanging nature [Hebrews 6:17].
Point # 7 indicates a change of nature. Being a distant and indifferent God in the OT to becoming a more approachable and accessible God in NT is a change of nature.


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These 8 points I bring up show blatant forgeries, contradictions, and errors that indicate that the God of Israel is nothing but an indecisive, inconsistent, charlatan who professes the supposed truth to the right way.

The word "right" however is synonymous with the words honest, legitimate, proper, and appropriate (Thesaurus.com).

The 8 points I listed above show me that the God of Israel is anything but "right." He is sporadic with his decrees which cost the lives of people for mistakes that God has made. God is not taking responsibility for the action he takes. The blame is shifted unto his creation who have no clue when things go awry.

This sounds a lot like big business being bailed out in US when they commit fraud on an international scale which results in tax payers paying for the mistakes of big business. How is that right at all? This example illustrates the God of Israel.

This allows me to leave Christianity with confidence and be certain of the choice I made as right. Writing out a list like this helps me compile my thoughts better to know why I left rather than have it all jumbled in my head. This is my tablet if you will.

What are your reasons for being disenchanted with Christianity? Can you make a list?

[sawthelight]

...
Clearly from the Greek translations themselves it shows that Jesus explicitly said that the mustard seed INDEED IS THE SMALLEST OF ALL SEEDS! It's all there! Nothing more was noted nor nothing less was noted, all in Greek!...

The creek word has also meaning lesser in value, which is why the scripture can be understood to mean that the mustard seed was lesser in rank or value than the other seeds, it was not as important or desired.

Please provide your evidence otherwise this is idle chat - no substance.

However the evidence I provided DOES PROVE Jesus claiming the mustard seed as the smallest of all seeds - written out in pure text from scripture. Where is your opposing evidence?

Even if you do bring some evidence, that does no negate the fact that Jesus still claimed the mustard seed as smallest out of all seeds. Why? Because that is clearly written and recorded in the bible as well as in the Greek translations. Good luck with that.

[sawthelight]

Then perhaps you are right. Jesus never spoke in absolute terms ...

I didn't say he "never" did but the assumption that he ALWAYS did is totally unreasonable since speech is rarely if ever used exclusively in absolute terms and most so called "contradictions" I have come across have to be based on this most unreasonable assumption.

The mustard seed non-issue being an example.

JW

Correct. An assumption on your part. You are unable to back your claim with absolute certainty or with any scriptural evidence, but with only the assumption that Jesus wasn't being absolute there but was in all other parts of his sermons. An assumption on your part. Not fact.

However, EXPLICIT is the text when recording Jesus as saying the mustard seed is the smallest of all seeds. There is no more or less information shown besides that. So we know today Jesus is incorrect and that the mustard seed indeed IS NOT the smallest seed of all seeds in the world. Referring back to text with today's knowledge, that is incorrect. No assumption but fact.

Good luck.

[sawthelight]

Well I gave the apologists more chances to bring evidence to the table to support their arguments yet they continue to just make assumptions and superficial arguments.

I'm out. I cannot tolerate this any longer.

Reply all you want now Christians, I see little future in your religion. To you yours, to me what is mine.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 71 by sawthelight]

I am just presenting a common sense point about language as it is used. "Everybody's gone" usually means everybody but me and the person I'm speaking to. "You always leave a mess" means you usually leave a mess and "Nobody loves me" excludes your dog and the taxman... that's just how people communicate.

Common sense,

JW

[1213]

Please provide your evidence otherwise this is idle chat - no substance.

For example Google translator gives meaning lesser for the word . And my other source gives these meanings:

1) small, little
1a) of size: hence of stature, of length
1b) of space
1c) of age: less by birth, younger
1d) of time: short, brief, a little while, how little!
1e) of quantity: i.e. number, amount
1f) of rank or influence
http://raamattu.uskonkirjat.net/servlet ... 2&ent=3398

But I think that word is not the problem. The difference is, in what sense the seed is smaller, or lesser. The scripture doesnt seem to say it is actually in physical size. But either it doesnt very directly say it is in value. I believe Jesus meant that the mustard seed is not highly considered.

Interesting addition is, herbs means vegetables. If, as it seems, Jesus is speaking of vegetables, perhaps it is not very reasonable to bring other than vegetable seeds to this competition.

http://raamattu.uskonkirjat.net/servlet ... 2&ent=3001

[sawthelight]

[Replying to post 71 by sawthelight]

I am just presenting a common sense point about language as it is used. "Everybody's gone" usually means everybody but me and the person I'm speaking to. "You always leave a mess" means you usually leave a mess and "Nobody loves me" excludes your dog and the taxman... that's just how people communicate.

Common sense,

JW

Again, another assumption on your part and not fact.

Common sense is not the equivalent to fact.

[sawthelight]

Please provide your evidence otherwise this is idle chat - no substance.

For example Google translator gives meaning lesser for the word . And my other source gives these meanings:

1) small, little
1a) of size: hence of stature, of length
1b) of space
1c) of age: less by birth, younger
1d) of time: short, brief, a little while, how little!
1e) of quantity: i.e. number, amount
1f) of rank or influence
http://raamattu.uskonkirjat.net/servlet ... 2&ent=3398

But I think that word is not the problem. The difference is, in what sense the seed is smaller, or lesser. The scripture doesnt seem to say it is actually in physical size. But either it doesnt very directly say it is in value. I believe Jesus meant that the mustard seed is not highly considered.

Interesting addition is, herbs means vegetables. If, as it seems, Jesus is speaking of vegetables, perhaps it is not very reasonable to bring other than vegetable seeds to this competition.

http://raamattu.uskonkirjat.net/servlet ... 2&ent=3001

Again this does not negate the fact what I showed earlier with the interlinear bible showing what Jesus said word for word.

This is just conflicting evidence that holds little weight.

The milk has already been spilt and to try and claim otherwise by saying the milk has not spilt when proof is evident makes absolutely no case here. Your argument is really impotent as this point. You cannot deny the milk has spilt.

[Justin108]

2) The mustard seed parable [Matthew 13:31-32].
Jesus claims as a fact that the Mustard seed is the smallest of all seeds in the Bible. Yet we know the Orchid seed is smaller than the Mustard seed. Jesus failed to be correct.

Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
Matthew 13: 32

That says least, which can be understood as of rank or influence. Why do you choose the meaning smallest in size, when it can also be understood as low in rank?

Perhaps you would like to do an interlinear search regarding that verse concerning the mustard seed. It is here which will confirm in the Greek translation (or Hebrew that may apply) that indeed Jesus was talking about the mustard seed being the smallest of "every" seed in the world.

Let's compare Matthew 13:32 word for word in English to Greek:

"Though it is the smallest of all seeds..."

" ..."

Now let's condense the translations needed down to: "smallest of all seeds"

smallest = = mikroteron

GRK:
NAS: and this is smaller than all
KJV: indeed is the least of all seeds:
INT: which smallest indeed is

of all = = pantn

GRK:
NAS: is smaller than all [other] seeds,
KJV: is the least of all seeds: but
INT: indeed is of all the seeds

seeds = = spermatn

GRK:
NAS: than all [other] seeds, but when
KJV: the least of all seeds: but when
INT: of all the seeds when however

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/13-32.htm (source)

Clearly from the Greek translations themselves it shows that Jesus explicitly said that the mustard seed INDEED IS THE SMALLEST OF ALL SEEDS! It's all there! Nothing more was noted nor nothing less was noted, all in Greek!

This is the last I will argue this point about the seeds unless an apologist has a far exceeding better explanation to challenge me. Until then, I will not answer the next apologist who comes in with superficial answers in which he/she did not do his own research to make his assertion. This is becoming redundant now.

Case closed. Christianity is a fraud and Jesus was wrong.

If that doesn't convince you, so be it (amen?). It's your life. Do whatever the hell you wanna do with it.

Unless of course Jesus was not speaking in absolute terms; which of course we usually don't. This illustrates the problem when people present these supposed errors, they are usually based on unsubstantiated presumptions.

JW

Can you please explain how "smallest of all seeds" is not an absolute? I must be misunderstanding the concept of an "absolute". Would you please explain it to me?